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FIBER TYPE TRAINING EXPLAINED

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  • #46
    Tipsta can u list rep ranges and speeds for bodyparts?
    Turn the other cheek and I'll break your fucking chin.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by chasebny View Post
      Tipsta can u list rep ranges and speeds for bodyparts?
      I suggest rep ranges of 12 to 15 depending on the bodypart but I also suggest TRULY failing 3 or so prior then rest pausing to the final number.

      Speeds? Every rep should be done with the most positive speed possible. the faster you try to move the weight the more intense the fast twitch fiber fires initially. Thats most important with the fast twitch fiber. However some will go longer in duration than others as in biceps but each rep I pull up is balls to the walls explosive.

      Maybe this will demonstrate better. Notice ALL the reps are explosive and consistant with never allowing the muscle to become uncontracted at any point of the sets.

      http://youtube.com/watch?v=UYov15S3RFU
      TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
      Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Tipsta View Post
        Each of us human beings are exactly the same in genetic makeup. We all have the exact same muscle groups designed to do the exact same job whether you believe in GOD or aliens or evolution, the human body is an incredible machine and has been designed to aid us in our everyday responsibilities.
        Lets look at each muscle and what they do for us. Lets say somebody threw something at your face, your response would be to throw your hands up VERY quickly in an explosive movement to protect yourself. Very similar to what a fighter does to throw a punch. The chest shoulders and triceps work in a similar manor as they are made up of fibers that have an amazing ability to explode very quickly with great force. However these muscles can only produce that force for a very short time. For those old enough to remember, Muhamad Ali used a method he called the rope a dope. He didnt know the science of the fast twitch fibers that exist within the chest shoulders or triceps. What he did know is that these muscles could NOT fire at peak for very long periods so he would cover up and let his opponent unload on him until he quickly tired out then he dominated because of the lost power his opponent endured. That being understood the chest shoulders and triceps are made up MAINLY of fibers that are designated to have great explosive strength for limited amounts of time.

        Lets take a look at a muscle that is the complete OPPOSITE. The bicep. Think about carrying a bag home from the store. You can go for miles and your arms will hold the bag in an L shape position without ANY contractile movement of the bicep. The bicep has fibers that are designated to be able to stay contracted and resist weight with NO movement for very long periods of time. It has no true explosive positive power since there is no need for a human to have that ability in that muscle. It is MAINLY a slow twitch fibered muscle.

        Lets take a look at the Legs as well as the back. These fibers are similar to the chest shoulders and triceps but differ as they have an ability to perform for a much longer period. Take a look at olympic rowers. They row explosively all while keeping a consistant level of explosive energy. They will row for 3 plus minutes and lose VERY little power. Think about a football player who catches the ball in the endzone. He will explode with great force and run the entire field with explosive contractions from his quads and will be able to go for distance. Legs are most obvious designed for LONG term use as we cant run or walk a marathon on our hands.

        Now lets look at the calves. They have a fiber that is designed like no other. When we need to reach for something very high we explode on our toes and reach for the item all while increasing the PEAK CONTRACTION to reach even higher. The calves are made up of fibers that contract extremely fast to a peak contracted state and can hold that INTENSE contraction for a long period of time.

        In order to ACTIVATE the majority of fibers that exist within a muscle we must be able to duplicate its action. This is the most important thing, yet it has never been addressed properly.
        A truly excellent post.
        IMO, every single person that is serious about weight training, should take at least, a entry level course in anatomy/physiology, at a local community college.

        Muscles should be trained, by function/action type.

        IMO, when designing a training plan, the body should be thought of as a functional total integrated neural entity, not thought of as individual detached muscles.
        My Competition Prep Journal

        Muscular Development Forum Rules

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Tipsta View Post
          I suggest rep ranges of 12 to 15 depending on the bodypart but I also suggest TRULY failing 3 or so prior then rest pausing to the final number.

          Speeds? Every rep should be done with the most positive speed possible. the faster you try to move the weight the more intense the fast twitch fiber fires initially. Thats most important with the fast twitch fiber. However some will go longer in duration than others as in biceps but each rep I pull up is balls to the walls explosive.

          Maybe this will demonstrate better. Notice ALL the reps are explosive and consistant with never allowing the muscle to become uncontracted at any point of the sets.

          http://youtube.com/watch?v=UYov15S3RFU
          Another fine post Tipsta.

          Load / tension/ time, is the key to hypertrophy and God only knows how many people I have observed over the years in a gym, that don't understand that fundamental principle.
          My Competition Prep Journal

          Muscular Development Forum Rules

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          • #50
            Originally posted by DBowden View Post
            A truly excellent post.
            IMO, every single person that is serious about weight training, should take at least, a entry level course in anatomy/physiology, at a local community college.

            Muscles should be trained, by function/action type.

            IMO, when designing a training plan, the body should be thought of as a functional total integrated neural entity, not thought of as individual detached muscles.

            What blows my mind is this seems like a no brainer to me and most people I speak to say......I never ever heard of this. Am I really that far ahead of the curve? I dont think so. I just think that as sad as it is, this sport is NOT filled with people who truly understand the functions of each muscle as it pertains to the human body. Basically they are gym science educated and not very medically science educated.
            TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
            Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

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            • #51
              im a little confused. ur saying that you do12-15 reps including rest pauses on all ur sets with continous contractions and explosive concentric movement correct? Then how is this training to the funcitionality of each body type, if as u say it u can hold a bag of groceries with your bicep for an extended period of time but can only throw punches (tris and shoulders) for a short amount of time? Im a little confused, r u saying that all bodyparts have the same slow and fast twitch ratio? I think u need to clear up your analogy slightly if its no trouble. Ur analogy makes it sound as if u want to train biceps longer, and keep shoulder tri workouts short and explosive.
              Turn the other cheek and I'll break your fucking chin.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by chasebny View Post
                im a little confused. ur saying that you do12-15 reps including rest pauses on all ur sets with continous contractions and explosive concentric movement correct? Then how is this training to the funcitionality of each body type, if as u say it u can hold a bag of groceries with your bicep for an extended period of time but can only throw punches (tris and shoulders) for a short amount of time? Im a little confused, r u saying that all bodyparts have the same slow and fast twitch ratio? I think u need to clear up your analogy slightly if its no trouble. Ur analogy makes it sound as if u want to train biceps longer, and keep shoulder tri workouts short and explosive.
                Exactly. Chest shoulders tris will fail at 8 to 10 with explosive, short, 1/2 rep from chest maybe lasting 10 seconds then go on with my rest pauses as explained which will take me into about 40 seconds. (INTESITY OF INITIAL CONTRACTION). Biceps will fail at 10 or 12 with FULL range of motion from complete extention to bar to neck. Because of this form it will take about 30 to 40 seconds then go on with my rest pauses as directed which will take me into about 75 seconds (DURATION OF STRESS)

                Also you would superset and do negatives for biceps but very rarely chest obviously.
                TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
                Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

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                • #53
                  Sounds like the generally accepted "time under tension" zones for fast and slow twitch fibres.
                  Tipsta, it sounds like you're saying a bodybuilder should not do sets of 4-6 reps. However, if you never lift weight that is too heavy to do 10 reps, aren't you missing out on the fast twitch stimulation that comes from a bigger load?
                  Enjoying the awesomeness of the pumptitude as an end in itself

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by gymdog View Post
                    Sounds like the generally accepted "time under tension" zones for fast and slow twitch fibres.
                    Tipsta, it sounds like you're saying a bodybuilder should not do sets of 4-6 reps. However, if you never lift weight that is too heavy to do 10 reps, aren't you missing out on the fast twitch stimulation that comes from a bigger load?
                    Fast twitch stimulation happens by moving the weight explosivlely and very fast. How fast will you explode on a weight you cant even lift 4 times? Do you really think 4 to 6 contractions is going to do much? I suggest failing at 8 to 10 at incredibly fast and explosive contractions then resting for a few seconds maybe 10 to 20 and doing a few more which will be much more of an intense workload but you will be able to still fire the muscle quite quickly. Your way will only stimulate the slow twitch fibers in a muscle since the speed will be slower in motion. Make sense?

                    This is the type of training that I'm talking about and this was the reason he evolved into a bigger and far more superior bodybuilder than anyone else did. Remember they all do the same drugs and so do all the THOUSANDS of people but only an elite few evolve as he did. The training is what made him, not the drugs.

                    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UYov15S3RFU
                    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
                    Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

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                    • #55
                      Makes sense indeed. Would you recommend this kind of set for beginners?
                      Enjoying the awesomeness of the pumptitude as an end in itself

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Tipsta View Post
                        Exactly. Chest shoulders tris will fail at 8 to 10 with explosive, short, 1/2 rep from chest maybe lasting 10 seconds then go on with my rest pauses as explained which will take me into about 40 seconds. (INTESITY OF INITIAL CONTRACTION). Biceps will fail at 10 or 12 with FULL range of motion from complete extention to bar to neck. Because of this form it will take about 30 to 40 seconds then go on with my rest pauses as directed which will take me into about 75 seconds (DURATION OF STRESS)

                        Also you would superset and do negatives for biceps but very rarely chest obviously.
                        Whats up Tipsta, sorry i havent gotten back to you, have been tied up with the Holidays, I have a terrible cold its really holding me back.
                        You explained chest tris shoulders and bis but how should we work back and legs?

                        I will send you my calculated diet soon.
                        Cancer SURVIVOR

                        "Falling isn't FAILURE, FAILURE is not getting back up"

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by gymdog View Post
                          Makes sense indeed. Would you recommend this kind of set for beginners?
                          There are only two ways to train. The right way and the wrong way. Beginner or not.
                          TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
                          Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Deerod021 View Post
                            Whats up Tipsta, sorry i havent gotten back to you, have been tied up with the Holidays, I have a terrible cold its really holding me back.
                            You explained chest tris shoulders and bis but how should we work back and legs?

                            I will send you my calculated diet soon.
                            Legs and Back are very similar to your chest shouilders and tris except they can explode for a longer period of time so the rep range is increased to fail at 12 instead of failing at 8. Rest pause obviously to 15 to 17
                            TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
                            Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

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                            • #59
                              Tipsta.

                              Maybe I missed it somewhere in this thread but, what are your thoughts on the speed of the eccentric portion of the rep? Obviously it should be a controlled contraction but what portion of the negative should be accountable for total time under tension and does it differ per muscle group?

                              There is a lot of research that indicates the eccentric portion of the rep is important because of hormone, chemical related responses in the body as well as causing more microtrauma than concentric so I wondered what your thoughs were on this.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by jdspinna View Post
                                Tipsta.

                                Maybe I missed it somewhere in this thread but, what are your thoughts on the speed of the eccentric portion of the rep? Obviously it should be a controlled contraction but what portion of the negative should be accountable for total time under tension and does it differ per muscle group?

                                There is a lot of research that indicates the eccentric portion of the rep is important because of hormone, chemical related responses in the body as well as causing more microtrauma than concentric so I wondered what your thoughs were on this.
                                I don't have the link, but I remember an MD article a while back reporting on an experiment that found more fibres fire with a fast negative then a slow one. It might have been with a weight to heavy to do a concentric phase however, I can't remember.
                                Enjoying the awesomeness of the pumptitude as an end in itself

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