Low Testosterone long term options

[GridIron400]

Hey thanks for the input bramlok, I am supposed to meet him tomorrow (friday) to discuss the matter. Simultaneously I had an ultrasound done on what turned out to be a case of asymmetrical gyno, weird considering my diet/training/ sleep habits havent changed much and I didnt have it during puberty. Also the fact that its associated hormonal changes leads to hope that help push him towards a protocol like clomid/a-dex for each. Ill post on here how our meeting went tomorrow.

[Bramlok]

Sometimes when talking with a doctors nurse or assistant, things can get lost in translation. It's always best to speak one on one with your doc. When shopping for docs, many I looked into also said they specialize in HRT, only to find out once meeting them, that I knew more about it than they did. Yes, co-pays can be a pain and add up but it's a part of the process sometimes. Working with both the insurance companies and doctors can be really frustrating. Unfortunately, you can't put all your faith in them to do their job. Sometimes you have to do a lot of the work yourself and work with them together to come up with a solution or plan. Research as much as you can, present your questions, opinions and thoughts and talk to your doc about a long term plan. Like I mentioned before, it took me a good 8 months just to find a doc willing to listen or work with me. Then we went back and forth after many visits trying things his way and then my way, with both of us coming to an understanding to what our goals were. It wasn't easy, but now that we've earned each others trust, it's been smooth sailing ever since.

I understand where you're coming from and can appreciate your long term outlook on life. I wish you luck and hope things progress smoothly in the future.

[GridIron400]

Thanks, yes the voicemail I got was from his nursing assistant which he may not even have been aware of the phone call. But he agreed when I tested 460 that it was "low for my age" and said that it's not quite low enough for TRT but we could talk about different options. Main point of my irritation is I dont NEED to go to a doctor to get the drugs I want or need to fix the issue. Im putting faith in my insurance company and the medical field to make/ keep me healthy. Im only getting one life and I dont want to live it miserably. I dont drink or do recreational drugs anymore and my wife and I are focussed on finishing school and starting a family.

All I want is to enjoy the benefits of a healthy (ier) body since my passion is exercise and fitness. I probably wont shop around too much since co-pay are racking up. But I will keep my fingers crossed that my doctor (whos profile says he specializes in HRT) is going to have different views than the nurse who thinks im good to go apparently.

[Bramlok]

The difference in range they gave you is sometimes different from lab to lab depending on where they sent it to get tested.

The other thing is most doctors are quite ignorant and uninformed when it comes to HRT. They do the blood test, check to see if your levels fall into the "normal" range and send you on your way. Somehow, they fail to understand that a 20 year old should have much higher test levels than a 60 year old.

I know for a fact that I feel better with higher test levels. The trouble was finding a doctor educated and understanding enough to help me. I saw about 5 or 6 doctors before finding one that was willing to work with me. He lets me keep my test levels in the upper end of high, many times exceeding.

You may want to start looking for another doc if yours seems unwilling to investigate further. Just from the symptoms you described is an indicator of low test. I would either start shopping for a new doc or maybe ask him for a referral to an endocrinologist. It took me close to 8 months to find my doc so it does take some work and isn't always easy.

If you haven't already, you may want to post your questions over in the Anabolic Doc's Forum. He may be able to help. http://forums.musculardevelopment.co...as-O-Connor-MD

[GridIron400]

Just an update for everyone following the thread. I got a phone call from the doctors office this morning saying my results came back "normal" at 398 ng/dl and there is no reason to worry/ pursue any treatment. The two things that bug me are that 1.) Its not necessarily "normal" given that Im 22 and the tests have shown a steady decline in my testosterone output since I was 18 (440,460,291,398) 2.) Is the fact that the first test was from a range of 350-950, but the second was from 250-1000, so why the hell would they change the range on me?

It may seem stupid but I am still going to go see my doctor about options. They can say it is normal for my as an individual but am I wrong in wanting to be my own judge of that?! Im obviously going to benefit from higher levels in the range as opposed to lower and the whole reason I went is beacuse my sleep, recovery, energy, and sex drive are all suffering.

[woodswise]

I have read that for low test, some doctors (i.e. endocrinologists) will prescribe PCT type drugs, like HCG to see if they can stimulate natural recovery. Then if that does not work, you can move onto TRT.

I have also read that low level TRT does not necessarily mean you will be infertile. Some are, some are not. The doctors should be able to help with that, too.

Banking sperm is a great idea. I don't know the first thing about it.

Good luck bud, and keep us posted on how things go.

[GridIron400]

if there is no testical atrophy ( his words ) and I have had some prostate issues in the past, would running arimidex and finasteride for a while show higher levels on a re-test? Im thinking Im just converting too much to estrogen and dht possible? Im 6'1 210 and my lifts are decent, bp:405, sq:430, dl:500 but like i said its the natural enery and recovery that is lacking along with im packing on alot more bf% despite my bodyweight and eating habits ARENT changing

[Bramlok]

450 isn't low, 291 isn't even out of normal range... def not optimal, but you can drop your test levels that low by not sleeping right and doing too much cardio for a week or two. All I am saying is that two tests in four years is no where near enough to make the decision to go on HRT for life. Everyone should be getting their blood tested more often than that just as a general health precaution.

You know how they determine the "normal" range? It's based on men ranging from ages of 18-80. Most charts will show the normal range between 250-1100 ng/dl. Now the low side of 250 would be something that would be expected out of a 70 or 80 year old man, but NOT a young 18 or 20 year old. The high side of the scale is based on teenagers who will have the naturally highest levels. Even most 18 year olds will test much higher on total test far exceeding 1100ng/dl.

A 20 year old who comes back with a total of 291 is naturally not going to feel right. I don't care if he didn't eat, sleep, or exercise for a week straight, his body chemistry should not allow his test levels to drop that low. If he's been feeling lethargic and his libido is down over time, there's a good chance there's a problem there. It's not common with someone his age but it does happen.

And for anyone who's suffered from low T levels, most feel much better with a higher test level than hovering somewhere in the middle to low range. I've been on TRT for around 5 years now and I feel great at around 2000 ng/dl. My doc has no problem with running a higher dose as long as everything else stays in check and monitored.

I'm not saying the OP needs to run that high, but for his age, running at towards the high end of normal should show a definite improvement in overall feeling of well being.

[GridIron400]

gains are a secondary concern, yea i have plateaued since i have experienced the problems, but lethargy and vigor are two of the first priorities on my list along with general health and recovery. if i can find a solution and it happens to let me get beyond where I am at now then great but if not then ill be happy knowing that I have my health

[mandor]

why not just do bodybuilder doses instead of trt for a while, to make gainzzzz?

[GridIron400]

The doctor wants me to re-schedule another blood test for this very reason next week around 8am to check for any variations. But I have been tested 3 times total, 430 @ 18 , 460 at 19, and now 291 at 22. I understand your point but my dad has had the same issue for almost 10-15 years now so I think its less environmental and more biological.

[Canucklehead]

He said he tested low at age 18 and then was tested again very low at age 22.

450 isn't low, 291 isn't even out of normal range... def not optimal, but you can drop your test levels that low by not sleeping right and doing too much cardio for a week or two. All I am saying is that two tests in four years is no where near enough to make the decision to go on HRT for life. Everyone should be getting their blood tested more often than that just as a general health precaution.

[Bramlok]

He said he tested low at age 18 and then was tested again very low at age 22.

[Canucklehead]

One low reading doesn't mean you need TRT. Your T levels fluctuate a lot depending on diet, sleep, overtraining, stress, etc, etc. You would need more than just one low reading to diagnose hypogonadism.

[Bramlok]

So in your opinion it is easier and possibly more cost effective to administer a weekly shot vs. trying hcg clomid? I just dont want to go into the doctors visit blind if there are options that fit my income and health better.

A 10mg bottle of test cyp with insurance co-pay only costs me $7 a month. That will last a long time. But like I said, talk everything over with your doc and explain your situation. Maybe even ask him about seeing an endocrinologist if that would benefit.