3.5 grams

[heavyiron]

What the hell does that even mean, it's not bro science when a doctor carries out a medical study? Did you read anything in my post, the entirety of the post was referencing medical studies not anecdotal theories...

When you have a moment post up the study where they used 400mg of Anadrol daily. I have never seen that study done in humans.

Thanks!

[ghostrider]

What the hell does that even mean, it's not bro science when a doctor carries out a medical study? Did you read anything in my post, the entirety of the post was referencing medical studies not anecdotal theories...

There´s big difference between acute and chronic toxicity, that´s what that means...

[JordanWFitness]

There´s big difference between acute and chronic toxicity, that´s what that means...

Yea chronic toxicity is prolonged exposure, like 6 months at 200mg/day... What are you trying to get at? Is your foot in your mouth right now and your trying not to hop on one foot too far to back yourself into a corner?

[JordanWFitness]

When you have a moment post up the study where they used 400mg of Anadrol daily. I have never seen that study done in humans.

Thanks!

Supasyndh, Ouppatham, and Satirapoj Bancha. "Effect of Oral Anabolic Steroid on Muscle Strength and Muscle Growth in Hemodialysis Patients." CJASN. 8.2 (2012): 271-279.


"24-week randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study was conducted in patients undergoing MHD at the Hemodialysis Unit of The Kidney Foundation of Thailand"


"Treatment protocol patients were randomized by a method of block randomization by a research pharmacist to one of two double-blinded treatment groups. A computer-generated randomization procedure in blocks of four was used, and the protocol was successfully blinded through the end of the study. Group One ingested oxymetholone (50 mg tablet two times daily) for 24 weeks, Group Two ingested oxymetholone (2 50 mg tablet two times daily), Group Three ingested oxymetholone (4 50 mg tablet two times daily), the other group ingested a placebo, which was identical in appearance to the oxymetholone, in the same manner."


Also a study in rats where the rats liver didn't get "destroyed" at 640mg/kg


Hosseinimehr, Seyed Jalal. "Oral oxymetholone reduces mortality induced by gamma irradiation in mice through stimulation of hematopoietic cells." Molecular and Cellular Biochemistry. 1.2 (2006): 193-199.


"80 mg/kg, 160 mg/kg, 320 mg/kg, 640 mg/kg"

[Brutal Master]

^ok, so what were the results of that? Liver and lipids must have looked horrendous

[ghostrider]

Yea chronic toxicity is prolonged exposure, like 6 months at 200mg/day... What are you trying to get at? Is your foot in your mouth right now and your trying not to hop on one foot too far to back yourself into a corner?

So if people tolerate 200mg a day, that means they will tolerate 3,5g in single dose? No it doesn´t, so until someone does research on acute toxicity(LD50) of said drug, you are referring only to bro science. The end.

[Langmuir]

^ok, so what were the results of that? Liver and lipids must have looked horrendous

The abstract states,

"Liver enzyme rose significantly in the oxymetholone group, but the number of values greater than three times the upper limit of normal were not different between these groups."

and

"In hemodialysis patients, ingesting oxymetholone was associated with an increase in fat-free mass, handgrip strength, and muscle mRNA levels for several growth factors and a decrease in fat mass, but it also induced liver injury."

I don't have access to the full article, but it seems that the liver enzyme values weren't more than three times the normal limit.

[JordanWFitness]

So if people tolerate 200mg a day, that means they will tolerate 3,5g in single dose? No it doesn´t, so until someone does research on acute toxicity(LD50) of said drug, you are referring only to bro science. The end.

Re-read this thread it was 3.5g a week, any logical person would assume it was split evenly throughout the week

[JordanWFitness]

The abstract states,

"Liver enzyme rose significantly in the oxymetholone group, but the number of values greater than three times the upper limit of normal were not different between these groups."

and

"In hemodialysis patients, ingesting oxymetholone was associated with an increase in fat-free mass, handgrip strength, and muscle mRNA levels for several growth factors and a decrease in fat mass, but it also induced liver injury."

I don't have access to the full article, but it seems that the liver enzyme values weren't more than three times the normal limit.

I can pull it up when I have time, I have access to them.

Obviously mega dosing isn't going to be healthy I'm just showing that it won't kill someone and 24 weeks is much longer than we'd run anadrol for. Accutane has much greater effects on liver and its typically taken for 6-12 months.

Bodybuilding protocols for anadrol are actually conservative compared to medical settings, I think it may be the only drug where this is the case. Anadrol is taken for prolonged periods (way longer than 4-6 weeks) and the minimum dose is usually 100mg a day, 200mg is not uncommon while in our community if someone said they were taking 200mg a day they'd get flamed off most boards by people like the ones posting in this thread.

[Langmuir]

I can pull it up when I have time, I have access to them.

Obviously mega dosing isn't going to be healthy I'm just showing that it won't kill someone and 24 weeks is much longer than we'd run anadrol for. Accutane has much greater effects on liver and its typically taken for 6-12 months.

Bodybuilding protocols for anadrol are actually conservative compared to medical settings, I think it may be the only drug where this is the case. Anadrol is taken for prolonged periods (way longer than 4-6 weeks) and the minimum dose is usually 100mg a day, 200mg is not uncommon while in our community if someone said they were taking 200mg a day they'd get flamed off most boards by people like the ones posting in this thread.

It's an intresting article for sure. I mean, 2.8g of drol a week. Damn. I don't recall reading a BB'er protocol that went over 200 mg/day.

I wish there were more controlled published studies like this. Maybe there will be in the future (it's a fairly recent 2012 paper after all).

[heavyiron]

^ok, so what were the results of that? Liver and lipids must have looked horrendous

Clin J Am Soc Nephrol. 2013 Feb;8(2):271-9. doi: 10.2215/CJN.00380112. Epub 2012 Nov 2.
Effect of oral anabolic steroid on muscle strength and muscle growth in hemodialysis patients.

Supasyndh O, Satirapoj B, Aramwit P, Viroonudomphol D, Chaiprasert A, Thanachatwej V, Vanichakarn S, Kopple JD.
Source

Division of Nephrology, Phramongkutklao Hospital and College of Medicine, Bangkok, Thailand. ouppatham@hotmail.com

Abstract

BACKGROUND AND OBJECTIVES:

Sarcopenia is common in hemodialysis patients. This study examined whether the anabolic steroid oxymetholone improves muscle mass and handgrip strength in hemodialysis patients and possible mechanisms that might engender such changes.
DESIGN, SETTING, PARTICIPANTS, & MEASUREMENTS:

Forty-three eligible hemodialysis patients were randomly assigned to ingest oxymetholone or placebo for 24 weeks. Body composition, handgrip strength, and quality of life were measured during the study. Muscle biopsies were performed and analyzed for mRNA levels for myostatin, IGF-I, IGF binding proteins, and myosin heavy chains and protein expression. Muscle fiber types and diameter were assessed by reduced nicotinamide-adenine dinucleotide staining.
RESULTS:

There was a significantly greater increase in fat-free mass and handgrip strength and decrease in fat mass in the oxymetholone compared with the placebo group. Moreover, compared with baseline values, patients given oxymetholone exhibited an increase in fat-free mass, handgrip strength, physical functioning scores, and type I muscle fiber cross-sectional area and a decrease in fat mass, whereas patients receiving placebo did not undergo changes. There was a significantly greater increase in muscle mRNA levels for myosin heavy chain 2×, IGF-I, and IGF-II receptor with oxymetholone treatment than placebo. Liver enzyme rose significantly in the oxymetholone group, but the number of values greater than three times the upper limit of normal were not different between these groups.
CONCLUSIONS:

In hemodialysis patients, ingesting oxymetholone was associated with an increase in fat-free mass, handgrip strength, and muscle mRNA levels for several growth factors and a decrease in fat mass, but it also induced liver injury.


PMID:23124786 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
PMCID:PMC3562853 [Available on 2014/2/7]

[heavyiron]

AIDS. 2003 Mar 28;17(5):699-710. Links

Double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled phase III trial of oxymetholone for the treatment of HIV wasting.

Hengge UR, Stocks K, Wiehler H, Faulkner S, Esser S, Lorenz C, Jentzen W, Hengge D, Goos M, Dudley RE, Ringham G.
STD-Unit, Department of Dermatology and Venerology, University of Essen, Germany. ulrich.hengge@uni-duesseldorf.de

BACKGROUND: Despite highly active antiretroviral therapy (HAART), chronic involuntary weight loss still remains a serious problem in the care of HIV patients. Various alterations in energy metabolism and endocrine regulation have been found to cause loss of lean body mass (LBM) and body cell mass (BCM). Previous studies in HIV-positive men undergoing androgen replacement therapy or treatment with recombinant growth hormone (rGH) have shown partial restoration of LBM, but these treatments have largely been ineffective in eugonadal individuals.

STUDY DESIGN: Double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial of 89 HIV-positive women and men with wasting assigned to the anabolic steroid oxymetholone [50 mg twice (BID) or three times daily (TID)] or placebo for 16 weeks followed by open-label treatment.

STUDY ENDPOINTS: Body weight, bioimpedance measurements, quality of life parameters and appetite. RESULTS: Oxymetholone led to a significant weight gain of 3.0 +/- 0.5 and 3.5 +/- 0.7 kg in the TID and BID groups, respectively (P < 0.05 for each treatment versus placebo), whereas individuals in the placebo group gained an average of 1.0 +/- 0.7 kg. Body cell mass increased in the oxymetholone BID group (3.8 +/- 0.4 kg; P < 0.0001) and in the oxymetholone TID group (2.1 +/- 0.6 kg; P < 0.005), corresponding to 12.4 and 7.4% of baseline BCM, respectively. Significant improvements were noted in appetite and food intake, increased well-being and reduced weakness by self-examination. The most important adverse event was liver-associated toxicity. Overall, 35% of patients in the TID, 27% of patients in the BID oxymetholone group and no patients in the placebo group had a greater than five times baseline increase for alanine aminotransferase during the double-blind phase of the study.

CONCLUSIONS: Oxymetholone can be considered an effective anabolic steroid in eugonadal male and female patients with AIDS-associated wasting. The BID (100 mg/day) regimen appeared to be equally effective as the TID (150 mg/day) regimen in terms of weight gain, LBM and BCM and was associated with less, but still significant liver toxicity.

[Beachbody45]

I can remember reading about the 1st studies that were done on anadrol by Syntex pharma back in the 1960's when they were first developing the drug. Every study showed the drug was associated with liver tumors. They dumped it off back in 1985, 5 years before the anabolic steroid control act went into effect. They obviously felt it was an unsafe drug for them to market.

Muscular Development mag. used to have a series on anabolic steroid drug profiles by Seth Roberts M.A. I have the Oct., 2009 issue with the anadrol profile. It says "Anadrol is considered to be a very potent and toxic oral steroid. This is due to the fact that anadrol has a long half life, 8 hours, and several active metabolites. It is well known for its propensity for causing side effects including edema, gyno.,balding acne, increased aggression, and liver toxicity. Anadrol raises liver enzymes and with long term treatment, liver damage. This is due to the C-17 alkylation and the relatively large amount of drug that one has to ingest to reach therapeutic levels."
He sites 10 reference sources and the one about liver toxicity is from the Journal of Clinical Therapy, June 23, 2001. He also says "Although anadrol has a reputation for dramatic size and strength gains, it is well known that these gains tend to disappear once treatment has ended. This is due to the fact that only a portion of the gains made are attributable to actual muscle growth. This is due to a large degree of water retention brought on through inhibition of 11-beta hydroxylase, which would explain the bloating and elevated blood pressure that most people report while using this drug.

The bio at the end says Seth Roberts is a former pharmaceutical research scientist with over 10 years of pharmacological research in the discovery and development of novel therapeutics.

[JordanWFitness]

I can remember reading about the 1st studies that were done on anadrol by Syntex pharma back in the 1960's when they were first developing the drug. Every study showed the drug was associated with liver tumors. They dumped it off back in 1985, 5 years before the anabolic steroid control act went into effect. They obviously felt it was an unsafe drug for them to market.

I've seen stuff like this posted before I assume it rooted from a steroid profile, do you have any sources? I've dug through lots of medical journals on oxymetholone for 60-70 and never found one supporting these claims