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Women on Steroids : The Simple Stupid Truth

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  • #31
    I do not agree with a lot of things being said about supplemental testosterone here. I think it is important that we not dismiss testosterone as useless or evil with no regards to the pertinent uses of the hormone. It serves a far more significant therapeutic physiological and psychological purpose than the aesthetic and cosmetic wonders bodybuilders seek out with chemically induced physical enhancement. The aesthetic benefits reaped are merely a side effect when there are far more relevant health related advantages to be considered. Test has improved the quality of life of many women, boosting self esteem, wellbeing and libido. It promotes bone growth, relieves depression, vaginal atrophy post menopause, and acts on muscles, liver, blood vessels, and brain enhancing cognitive functions...and so on. The side effects of high dosing we know all too well, which is why dosages should be tailored to each woman based on her individual needs. Before I discuss test in depth, let me mention that the standard dosage administered to transgender female to males is roughly 80mg/week. So 100mg/week for a woman would be ideal were she giving gender reassignment serious consideration. 120mg/week will surely expedite your transition.


    SS
    Death by Snoo Snoo!

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    • #32
      Originally posted by sadie7879
      you cannot say that 100mg a week is across the board tho mike.. im on 120mg of prop a week.. 3rd cycle.. the hair is the only side that stays. WHILE ON i lost my period.. comes right back. I gain lots of strength and muscle so unless those are considered side effects it is NOT across the board.. i have run a 16 week cycle.. a 12 week cycle and this one is 8. i noticed that most of my gains are between week 3-12 then all but stop so i doubt ill ever run longer than 12 again

      I believe you 100% that your only sides are what you say they are.....and I am also saying it is across the board.

      My only point is that regardless of personal response, testosterone at 100 mg/week will activate androgen receptors throughout the entire body. Of course, this amount will not cause anyone to grow hair on their chest overnight, but even at 100 mg/week, it is roughly the same amount all males make (200 mg/week is the rareity) naturally. In both males and females, if exposure to testosterone is long enough (regardless of whether it is 6 months or 3 years of exposure), it will give androgenic effects to one degree or another, continuing to increase in effect over time.

      No one is immune to the effects of activated androgen receptors. No male in the history of the world has thus yet been immune to a repeated and continuous exposure to testosterone, even at 100 mg/week; they all display the signs of androgenic activity and they all eventually turn into men who display varrying degrees of androgenicity.

      Do you think you will be the first human being to ever have androgen receptor sites that are immune to the effects of testosterone, no matter how long the exposure is? Do you think that the testosterone you are taking is only attaching to the receptor sites in muscle tissue and not the scalp, the skin, the vocal cords or the skeleton itself...everywhere? Come one.

      Now, I understand that a woman's exposure to testosterone is usually less lengthty than a male's, as female's cycle their testosterone. Also, there is something to be said for off-time allowing the body to normalize, but regardless, there will eventually be, if testosterone is repeatedly exposed to receptor sites and depending on the personal repsonse of the individual, a gardual accumulation of androgenic activity in all those tissues, if it is allowed to get to that point.

      For example, an individual could repeatedly expose themselves to testosterone over many cycles and experience no apparent hair growth on the skin of the face. Therefore, they may think that dose of testosterone is not enough to cause hair growth on the face. However, after the next cycle, hair suddenly appears for the first time. How can this happen if there was no hair growth for the first 8 cycles and now all of a sudden, the person has hair on their cheeks from the same dose after just one more cycle? The explanation is simple and it accurately portrays the way testosterone exerts it's effects in many tissues of the body where AR's are present. Just like the boy who did not grow any hair on his face until he was 15, despite producing around 100 mg/week of testosterone since age 13, this same occurence can and does happen in any individual who activates receptor sites. Now, of course not everyone has the same genetic propensity for facial hair growth, just as some men don't grow much if any facial hair despite a lifetime of producing testosterone. However, the principle is valid and everyone has many tissues in the body that contain AR's, which when activated enough, will cause an increase in both external and internal androgenicity in various areas of the body.

      The effects of testosterone are constantly working to stimulate AR's every time it is administered and often, these "hidden" androgenic effects, which have really been progressing since day one, don't become apparent until enough they have been present and unnoticed for some time, but have reached a point where the outward manifestation is visible to the human eye.

      Do not be decieved, just because you have not experienced these sides to any degree at doses of 100 mg/week, it does NOT mean you are not experiencing these effects, you just can't see them yet. In many instances, especially when it comes to physical androgenicity, this is how testosterone works. With testosterone, as long as the dose is able to activate enough receptors, it will immediately begin it's job of stimulating whatever tissues it has attached itself to. Of course, larger doses will activate more AR's and in turn, it's effects becomes noticable much faster. With testosterone, there is not a particular dose, or breaking point, at which testosterone will show it's effects and there is not a point at which below a particular dose, it will remain benign. It just doesn't work that way...in anyone.

      Now, if the dose is low enough, such as what many females normally produce, that dose of testosterone will not actiavte enough AR's in order to be able to power certain androgenic effects. So, in that sense, there is a breaking point, but it is VERY low and in women, it is no where even CLOSE to 100 mg/week. As already stated, not a single male can escape significant androgenic effects from that dose of testosterone and women in general are even more sensitive to the effects of androgens.

      So, I think you are misunderstanding what I was saying in my prior post. I was NOT saying that you have experienced sides using testosterone, but I am saying that NO ONE is immune to it's androgenic effects and that at doses of 100 mg/week EVERYONE will eventually develop androgenic sides if enough time passes for that particular individual to amass those sides, whatever length of time that may be.
      Last edited by Mike Arnold; April 1, 2010, 08:03 AM.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by SisterSteel View Post
        I do not agree with a lot of things being said about supplemental testosterone here. I think it is important that we not dismiss testosterone as useless or evil with no regards to the pertinent uses of the hormone. It serves a far more significant therapeutic physiological and psychological purpose than the aesthetic and cosmetic wonders bodybuilders seek out with chemically induced physical enhancement. The aesthetic benefits reaped are merely a side effect when there are far more relevant health related advantages to be considered. Test has improved the quality of life of many women, boosting self esteem, wellbeing and libido. It promotes bone growth, relieves depression, vaginal atrophy post menopause, and acts on muscles, liver, blood vessels, and brain enhancing cognitive functions...and so on. The side effects of high dosing we know all too well, which is why dosages should be tailored to each woman based on her individual needs. Before I discuss test in depth, let me mention that the standard dosage administered to transgender female to males is roughly 80mg/week. So 100mg/week for a woman would be ideal were she giving gender reassignment serious consideration. 120mg/week will surely expedite your transition.


        SS
        See bold. I have been saying this for ages, but it usually falls on deaf ears.

        I agree with you 100% SS in your post.

        I was not trying to demonize Testosterone's role in a woman's body, as it is a necessary and vital hormone for all the functions you've mentioned above and more. It's deprivation can result in serious side effects in females and as you said, it's controlled administration in some females has helped with a variety of issues.

        Just as men need both testosterone and etsrogen to be able to function as designed, women do likewise. We are so alike, yet so different.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by sadie7879
          ok so if it is across the board etc etc etc please explain to me why i have no voice changed, no facial hair growth (and now it takes like 3 weeks to even have stubble on my legs) and i have no clitoral hypertrophy?

          not very across the board to me sorry. i get temporary/ cosmetic sides but not the other less pleasant sides that SOME experience.. oh AND i suppress estrogen.. im on nolva 20mg ed year round and on adex to hinder test conversion WHILE ON TEST CYCLES not year round..

          explain to me how its so.. i have met enough people here that can attest to the fact that i do not have virilzation. you cannot say across the board i am sorry.. and if you remember.. in my first post.. i said i wouldnt just through anyone on my cycle either.. i didnt START on my cycle.. i made sure that i wasnt going to have issues before doing this because this.. is a HOBBY for me not a job and i will not mess myself up over a hobby.. i am also very resistant (always have been ) to chemicals.. everyone is NOT the same

          and yes my gear is real since i can almost feel that statement coming next
          Most people in this lifestyle have a severely altered perception of the way they look and are oblivious to the changes their bodies are undergoing because the changes happen very slowly and creep up on you over time. They do not appear overnight and consequently are much harder to monitor especially when you LIKE what you are seeing. If you LIKE what you see, you are highly unlikely to NOTICE anything WRONG.

          The way you carry yourself, your attitude, the impression you give in your posts, the conversations you engage in, your hostility, your arrogance, are all results of an inflated ego and exaggerated sense of self worth which are pretty typical of women with high test levels. This is not meant to disrespect you. Its a personal observation regarding your online persona. That is what is great about test. You certainly do feel invincible and euphoric when the dose gets relatively high. I highly doubt you were always this arrogant, especially having been an obese young woman most of your life. Again, this is not meant to insult you, but psychologically, women who struggle with weight and body image issues have serious insecurities regarding their physical appearance even long after they lose the weight. Some women move on to become super models, actresses, porn stars, strippers, BODYBUILDERS with an unusual obsession with the way they look. They might ooze self confidence in every aspect of their professional/personal/social lives, but the one subject you will see these women avoid like the plague is that pertaining to a time when they were less than perfect. The point I am trying to make is, you might think you are not experiencing any test related side effects but the truth is, I do not even know you and you display textbook symptoms of high test levels with your every utterance. I don't even think you know what clitoral hypertrophy even looks like, so how do you know you have not experienced it? Women have experienced clitoral hypertrophy on 5 mg of var. You mean to convince me you are this phenom of a female that can run 120mg of testosterone and experience NOTHING? hell had your body not been producing ANY test AT ALL (which is impossible) when you first started running 120mg of it a week, you would have STILL experienced the changes. Doesn't sex feel a lot better? Aren't you a lot more sensitive down there? Aren't you aroused a whole lot easier? Hell the look in your eye in every single picture I have seen of you screams: I WANT TO RIDE YOUR DICK LIKE A WILD STALLION.

          I am serious. Nothing wrong with that, don't get me wrong. I think you have a very pretty face, but its not a sweet looking face, Its a "I want to fuck anything with a pulse" face. I know that look.

          Just because you are not shaving your face and sporting a cock does not mean you are not experiencing side effects. Have you seen some pictures of transgender women? Some of those guys are hotter and more feminine as women than any woman I have ever laid my eyes on, and they have more free flowing testosterone in their systems than you and I combined.
          And the kicker is some of them don't even use female hormones to develop their feminine characteristics. I am going post some pictures of a good friend of mine so you get the full effect of what it is I am trying to convey to you. So when I tell you the dose you are running is typical of that administered to female to male transgenders, that does not necessarily mean that you will end up LOOKING like a man. You will simply end up having the same hormonal makeup as one.

          And if you've noticed you've been having to shave less often..then you must be comparing that to some other point in your life when you did not have to shave as much, which means you are indeed experiencing hirsutism that has resulted from your test cycles. And if you are ON and experiencing the hair growth less, then it's time to come off because it seems to me like you are running it longer than you claim to be and have saturated the shit out of your receptors. When that happens, the drug basically stops working. I suggest you switch it out for something else for a little while and give your body a break. Maybe masteron. Good androgen with anti estrogenic properties so you can come off the adex and nolva for a little while too.

          Long story short. You are simply wrapped up in a testosterone induced delusion. This too shall pass.


          SS
          Last edited by SisterSteel; April 2, 2010, 01:45 AM.
          Death by Snoo Snoo!

          Comment


          • #35
            This is my girl Tamara. 100% biological male packing an 8" fully functional cock. Still think your hormones have a huge impact on the way you look?
            Attached Files
            Death by Snoo Snoo!

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by sadie7879
              ok so if it is across the board etc etc etc please explain to me why i have no voice changed, no facial hair growth (and now it takes like 3 weeks to even have stubble on my legs) and i have no clitoral hypertrophy?
              Did you even read the post, Sadie. I explain this in full. In fact, almost my entire post is concerning this.

              not very across the board to me sorry. i get temporary/ cosmetic sides but not the other less pleasant sides that SOME experience.. oh AND i suppress estrogen.. im on nolva 20mg ed year round and on adex to hinder test conversion WHILE ON TEST CYCLES not year round..
              It is across the board. Take the time to read a post before posting a PM in response to something you haven't read.

              explain to me how its so.. i have met enough people here that can attest to the fact that i do not have virilzation. you cannot say across the board i am sorry.. and if you remember.. in my first post.. i said i wouldnt just through anyone on my cycle either.. i didnt START on my cycle.. i made sure that i wasnt going to have issues before doing this because this.. is a HOBBY for me not a job and i will not mess myself up over a hobby.. i am also very resistant (always have been ) to chemicals.. everyone is NOT the same
              Like I said, read my post. It VERY MUCH appears that you read nothing more than the first sentence of my post and just skipped the rest. It is across the board.

              and yes my gear is real since i can almost feel that statement coming next
              I believe you.


              There is no way you could have read the explanation for my statement, as you would have at least adressed the points that were brought up or responded in sone way to what was said. I know you are smart enough to comprehend what was written, so that isn't it. Read it!

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by SisterSteel View Post
                Most people in this lifestyle have a severely altered perception of the way they look and are oblivious to the changes their bodies are undergoing because the changes happen very slowly and creep up on you over time. They do not appear overnight and consequently are much harder to monitor especially when you LIKE what you are seeing. If you LIKE what you see, you are highly unlikely to NOTICE anything WRONG.

                The way you carry yourself, your attitude, the impression you give in your posts, the conversations you engage in, your hostility, your arrogance, are all results of an inflated ego and exaggerated sense of self worth which are pretty typical of women with high test levels. This is not meant to disrespect you. Its a personal observation regarding your online persona. That is what is great about test. You certainly do feel invincible and euphoric when the dose gets relatively high. I highly doubt you were always this arrogant, especially having been an obese young woman most of your life. Again, this is not meant to insult you, but psychologically, women who struggle with weight and body image issues have serious insecurities regarding their physical appearance even long after they lose the weight. Some women move on to become super models, actresses, porn stars, strippers, BODYBUILDERS with an unusual obsession with the way they look. They might ooze self confidence in every aspect of their professional/personal/social lives, but the one subject you will see these women avoid like the plague is that pertaining to a time when they were less than perfect. The point I am trying to make is, you might think you are not experiencing any test related side effects but the truth is, I do not even know you and you display textbook symptoms of high test levels with your every utterance. I don't even think you know what clitoral hypertrophy even looks like, so how do you know you have not experienced it? Women have experienced clitoral hypertrophy on 5 mg of var. You mean to convince me you are this phenom of a female that can run 120mg of testosterone and experience NOTHING? hell had your body not been producing ANY test AT ALL (which is impossible) when you first started running 120mg of it a week, you would have STILL experienced the changes. Doesn't sex feel a lot better? Aren't you a lot more sensitive down there? Aren't you aroused a whole lot easier? Hell the look in your eye in every single picture I have seen of you screams: I WANT TO RIDE YOUR DICK LIKE A WILD STALLION.

                I am serious. Nothing wrong with that, don't get me wrong. I think you have a very pretty face, but its not a sweet looking face, Its a "I want to fuck anything with a pulse" face. I know that look.

                Just because you are not shaving your face and sporting a cock does not mean you are not experiencing side effects. Have you seen some pictures of transgender women? Some of those guys are hotter and more feminine as women than any woman I have ever laid my eyes on, and they have more free flowing testosterone in their systems than you and I combined.
                And the kicker is some of them don't even use female hormones to develop their feminine characteristics. I am going post some pictures of a good friend of mine so you get the full effect of what it is I am trying to convey to you. So when I tell you the dose you are running is typical of that administered to female to male transgenders, that does not necessarily mean that you will end up LOOKING like a man. You will simply end up having the same hormonal makeup as one.

                And if you've noticed you've been having to shave less often..then you must be comparing that to some other point in your life when you did not have to shave as much, which means you are indeed experiencing hirsutism that has resulted from your test cycles. And if you are ON and experiencing the hair growth less, then it's time to come off because it seems to me like you are running it longer than you claim to be and have saturated the shit out of your receptors. When that happens, the drug basically stops working. I suggest you switch it out for something else for a little while and give your body a break. Maybe masteron. Good androgen with anti estrogenic properties so you can come off the adex and nolva for a little while too.

                Long story short. You are simply wrapped up in a testosterone induced delusion. This too shall pass.


                SS
                See bold above.....Bingo.

                She obviously didn't read anything I posted other than the first sentecne and then attempts to defend herself with an explanation that was refuted in my post, which is that she hasn't noticed anything after her first 3 cycles.

                I, for one, am glad she has not yet noticed any external changes, but as you said, changes will happen eventually, to one degree or another. NO one, including ALL women, are immune to the effects of 120 mg/week of Testosterone. Every time she introduces testosterone to all the various AR's in the body, especially at that dose, it is continually elliciting changes that may not be visible at this point, yet changes are assuredly occuring.

                She might not understand this now, but she will, hopefully sooner than later, as this position is unlikely to cause a mind-set which is condusive to healthy future choices.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Mike Arnold View Post

                  So, I think you are misunderstanding what I was saying in my prior post. I was NOT saying that you have experienced sides using testosterone, but I am saying that NO ONE is immune to it's androgenic effects and that at doses of 100 mg/week EVERYONE will eventually develop androgenic sides if enough time passes for that particular individual to amass those sides, whatever length of time that may be.
                  Originally posted by SisterSteel View Post
                  Most people in this lifestyle have a severely altered perception of the way they look and are oblivious to the changes their bodies are undergoing because the changes happen very slowly and creep up on you over time. They do not appear overnight and consequently are much harder to monitor especially when you LIKE what you are seeing. If you LIKE what you see, you are highly unlikely to NOTICE anything WRONG.
                  This is so true in my experience of being around women who use steroids.

                  I see them the first season competing, they look absolutely amazing.

                  Beautiful girls with fantastic bodies.

                  Every time, I ask my dear friend and former coach 'Are they natural?', she laughs at me and says 'No'.

                  It is often really difficult to see the effects of virilisation when women are competing, the low body fat rarely does any favors to a woman's face, but slowly, slowly, it happens.

                  Often it is the subtle sound of their voice, until the changes become more evident.

                  The story is always the same, according to one of my friends, huge fan of FBBing and editor of one of the major muscle mags in the UK, 'I did a few cycles, but I think I got away with it'.

                  He has told me the same response comes out of the mouth of women who clearly have a five o'clock shadow.

                  Don't get me wrong, while I am a lifetime natural, with a fascination with endocrinology and steroids (some of it is career related), I will defend the rights of any woman to do what she wants to do with her body.

                  I love reading and hearing about the cycles women are running*, the new amazing lifts, I live my steroid-curiosity vicariously through these generous women.

                  There are women who have no issue what so ever with virilisation, and there are those that accept some as it is what is required to obtain their goals, and there are some that are so wrapped up in how great it feels to be so strong, the results, the recovery, they don't stop long enough to take a long hard look at themselves.

                  Six years into the bodybuilding scene, some, if not most, of those beautiful girls are now what some of the not so nice members of the e-community would call beasts, freaks, trannies, men.............

                  I can't imagine it is easy to live in our society with an androgynous appearance.

                  *those that know what they are doing, there are far too many horror stories occurring.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Thanks SS and Mike very interesting info and point of views.

                    Comment


                    • #40



                      Wow...
                      "The only lack or limitation is in your own mind."

                      MD!!!

                      www.LivingDeadMafia.com

                      Click for Audio

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                      • #41
                        Lots of love in here.
                        anabolicsociety.com

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by The AdMan View Post



                          Wow...

                          Perfectly placed. LOL.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by sadie7879
                            i understand mike.. my point however is that i am VERY informed and made an extremely educated guess with calculated risk. i did not just say ya gimme prop.. i knew everything about it and slowly introduced it. i have run the same dose for 3 cycles now keep getting great gains and i do not get the sides.. i will NOT push my luck by upping a dose to rush things along.. i would rather steady and consistent than drastic and full of sides

                            my entire point is that making blanket statements with regards to the human body and reactions to chemicals on individuals is very very silly. everyone is different and the variables are insane..

                            example.. i needed a root canal.. i cracked a tooth beyond repair. the novaine was NOT working. my next visit i took 8 vics 10s with a shot of vodka and drove myself just fine to the dentist.. still was in agony then went to work.. if you took that would you be conscious?
                            You have a point with the variability of the human responses to pharmaceuticals, for example, there are hyper-metabolisers of codeine, so it doesn't work as a pain killers, there are people that don't respond to aspirin, ACE inhibitors do no work on African Americans.....

                            However, the only definitive variation in the effects of steroids are an increased risk of various cancers or heart disease in women who are on long term hormones, birth control or HRT.

                            There is some bro-ology science that claims that the Russians did some research and demonstrated men required a four fold range of steroids to elicit the same response. I have never been able to find the paper, so as it stands, it could be junk science, or just anecdotal evidence, which really isn't evidence.

                            My request is that you are careful with your use, I think it is obvious that you don't want any of the symptoms of virilisation.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Lollipop
                              Look.....I think the bottom line here is if Sadie is telling the truth about her dosages then we can all agree.....

                              She is clearly using bunk gear.

                              Not necessarily. I bet her stuff is legit, but everyone amasses sides at different rate.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Good thread. A 30 pound gain is possible but it wouldn't all be muscle. Even with a myostatin deficiency that isn't possible.

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