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Women Havoc yay or nay???

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  • #61
    Pro hormones are inactive compounds that have to convert inside the body into an active anabolic compound. How much converts is limited by the body. Havoc and most others out today that most use and like and recommend are referred to most commonly as designer steroids. They are active anabolic compounds just like winni, anavar, d bol, anadrol, halotestin, etc...

    Personally I always recommend havoc for a first time user. You never hear of people having harsh sides from havoc just like from halodrol, but havoc is stronger. I usually point this out and let them decide, but I lean towards havoc. I have heard people complain about halodrol and knew a guy taking over 200mgs ED... I won't even try it.
    PanterA is a fictional character for entertainment purposes only.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by PanterA View Post
      Pro hormones are inactive compounds that have to convert inside the body into an active anabolic compound. How much converts is limited by the body. Havoc and most others out today that most use and like and recommend are referred to most commonly as designer steroids. They are active anabolic compounds just like winni, anavar, d bol, anadrol, halotestin, etc...

      Personally I always recommend havoc for a first time user. You never hear of people having harsh sides from havoc just like from halodrol, but havoc is stronger. I usually point this out and let them decide, but I lean towards havoc. I have heard people complain about halodrol and knew a guy taking over 200mgs ED... I won't even try it.
      Funny, cuz I've always heard the opposite.

      The point of my post is, regardless of what you call it, PH and Steroids are just different forms of exogenous testosterone and its derivatives. Therefore the effects on the body, side effects, etc are the same so you have to treat them like you would any steroid.

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      • #63
        Ok I wish I had more solid info but here is what I have found. Havoc is stronger because it is a c17-alpha alkylated analog of epitiostane. Epitiostane is closer to mepitiostane. Mepitiostane is 17b etherified epitiostane. Mepitiostane may be more orally avalable than epitiostane because its etherfied. Mepitiostane is androgenic 25 and anabolic 100 and methepitiostane or havoc is 91 androgenic and 1100 anabolic. Wish we had the numbers on epitiostane itself, i assume its not more than mepitiostane. The c17-alpha alkyiation makes it stronger, just not sure how much stronger. You really cant always count on the numbers its how it reacts with the body.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Jacked911 View Post
          Funny, cuz I've always heard the opposite.

          When I say complain I mean because it's weak. That's why people always recommend it for a first timer is because it's weak, which is why it also has low sides. Personally I feel havoc is fine to jump into though as it has low sides as well.

          When I was doing my research I always said I'd use halodrol first, but then I used mass tabs, the original, and went straight to superdrol after that
          PanterA is a fictional character for entertainment purposes only.

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          • #65
            The best thing to do is wrap yoursefl up in some bubble wrap and dont go outside. Just picking. I agree you can do some figure and all bikini without whatever sups scare you. Genetics are not fair nether are supplements. Just be safe.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by PanterA View Post
              When I say complain I mean because it's weak. That's why people always recommend it for a first timer is because it's weak, which is why it also has low sides. Personally I feel havoc is fine to jump into though as it has low sides as well.

              When I was doing my research I always said I'd use halodrol first, but then I used mass tabs, the original, and went straight to superdrol after that
              Gotcha, that makes sense. Most sources I know tell me halo works great the first time, but after that you get no gains.

              Originally posted by Brad Crystal View Post
              The best thing to do is wrap yoursefl up in some bubble wrap and dont go outside. Just picking. I agree you can do some figure and all bikini without whatever sups scare you. Genetics are not fair nether are supplements. Just be safe.
              I feel ya, but that's not an excuse. You're 23 years young, you don't know your true genetics until you've been training/dieting properly for YEARS. Get in the gym, do some lunges, pushups and pullups. Do them at a high intensity with minimal rest. You'll get results, trust me. Get OFF the Havoc. You know you're doing something wrong when even the female gurus on here are telling you not to take the stuff.
              Last edited by Jacked911; April 19, 2010, 08:52 PM.

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              • #67
                you have an excellent point, however i do know some, and im saying this again some of my genetics. i took winny, last year i gained water i leaned out some not much, nothing like this. i feel tight i look better and im dropping body fat. THIS IS NOT MIRACLE BODY IN A BOTTLE. i will not depend on this repeatedly. This was just an experience i wanted to endure. but like i said i appreciate everyone's opinion and i truely value it, but i am dieting doing cardio and eating super super F'n CLEAN. i do not party i do not drink i do i get my rest. i sleep 7 hours a night, train 6 days a week circuit training and light weight, 45 minute cardio sessions 6 times a week HIGH intensity, i eat 120 carbs a day 6-7 meals 180 grams of protein, about 20 grams of fat per day. i did my homework now im giving this all i got. if i get to big hell ill do figure HAHA! but really thanks i do have the up most respect for natural athletes but im not one of them.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by SisterSteel View Post
                  Prohormones and steroids are an excellent choice for bikini. You can be the first to pave the road to yet another failed attempt by the IFBB at eradicating drug use from women's physique competition.

                  Steroids are not a right, they are a privilege...
                  What we needed was a drug tested division, not a bikini division.


                  we agree steroids pro hormones anything that effects he body hormonal level will screw u up i do know this .

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Brad Crystal View Post
                    Ok I wish I had more solid info but here is what I have found. Havoc is stronger because it is a c17-alpha alkylated analog of epitiostane. Epitiostane is closer to mepitiostane. Mepitiostane is 17b etherified epitiostane. Mepitiostane may be more orally avalable than epitiostane because its etherfied. Mepitiostane is androgenic 25 and anabolic 100 and methepitiostane or havoc is 91 androgenic and 1100 anabolic. Wish we had the numbers on epitiostane itself, i assume its not more than mepitiostane. The c17-alpha alkyiation makes it stronger, just not sure how much stronger. You really cant always count on the numbers its how it reacts with the body.

                    You are looking at 2 very different drugs...NOT the two we have been talking about. Both Havoc and Epistane are methylated and the same drug, with possible variances in isomer, depending on the company making it. The un-methylated version in your post is not Epistane, but Epitiostane, which is also VERY weak and nowhere close to what you have been using.

                    Some of the chemical names and nomenclatures are so close together in how they're spelled that it can get confusing. You can rest assured that the un-methylated drug that is in your post is NOT what we have been talking about and is NOT sold under the name "Epistane". Epistane is meth-epitiostane. All the products sole as Epistane, at least the dozen or so that I've seen, are all the methylated version, which measn they are the same drug as Havoc, but may or may not utilize the same isomer. Very few companies divulge what isomer they use and most of the reps probably couldn't even tell you if you asked....or even know what your talking about.
                    Last edited by Mike Arnold; April 20, 2010, 05:46 AM.

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                    • #70
                      Thanks Mike im new to the nomenclature game that these companies play. Also new to the whole over the counter gear. Just cant find anything on 2a,3a-epithiol-17a-methyletioallocholanol. So you are sure that 2a,3a-epithiol-17a-methyletioallocholanol is the same compound as 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol. Thanks again Mike.

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                      • #71
                        If I'm not mistaken where the 2 compounds differ, that's just 2 different ways of saying the same thing.
                        PanterA is a fictional character for entertainment purposes only.

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                        • #72
                          I'm considering running Havoc in lieu of Var for my national qualifier. I am a bodybuilder currently at 135lbs and 11%. I'm taking 16 weeks to diet. I was thinking of running the Havoc for 8 weeks at 5-10mg (depending on tolerance). Any suggestions of what I should run with it, if anything at all? Or what I should run right after it? My weekness has been getting the estrogenic fat of my glutes between the insertion point of the hamstrings into the glutes. I have changed my training to help with that but I'm also hoping that Havoc will help. Any suggestions on how to approach this cycle would be greatly appreciated.

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                          • #73
                            we are looking at cla we are not completely sold on it yet. the opticla, in my opinion theres to big of a hype on cla, but im also taking gugglio, by syntrax 3 times a day, an a whole food liquid multivitamin. also in my opinion run through your show with havoc. WE ARE DEF> CONCERNED WITH A ESTROGEN REBOUND. just speculating that estrogen levels may increase after discontinuance of havoc. it has a great hardening effect so it would probably help u appear fuller on stage. but be prepared for aggigatation, moody, and back pumps, may look into a stimulant type fat burner ephedra or clen, but remember its hard on the cardiovascular system, and generally bad moods i promise, but yet the key is goood ol cardio. also try looking into 11 oxo to reduce cortisol levels. this may help u hold more muscle and get leaner. for anyone else reading this THIS IS JUST MY OPINION

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                            • #74
                              dont run the havoc 16 weeks do it the last 8 or do 4 on 8 off 4 on. tough on the liver that long but so it var and winn. just havoc hasnt made me hold water major plus and im hard as concrete but like i said the back pumps are notttt fun.

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                              • #75
                                get blood be4 and after see how it effects you.

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