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Layne Norton

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  • BCAA's vs whey post workout

    Layne,

    Was curious, while listening to MDR and your conversations (which were awesome by the way, great for us "Natties" to get some exposure) you mentioned you use 15-20 gms of BCAA post workout. I know you follow this up with a whole meal about an hour later, but why do you feel this is more beneficial than say getting a whey protein that is a complete protein that has a good BCAA profile post workout? Do the BCAA's lead to greater/faster protein synthesis than whey?

    Thanks!
    Ryan
    www.naturaliowamuscle.com
    www.heartlandclassic.com

    Comment


    • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
      for taste? probably a good steak
      yeah for taste...and me too! bloody expensive though for a good cut of steak compared to chicken

      Comment


      • Originally posted by DEDICATE92 View Post
        Layne,

        Was curious, while listening to MDR and your conversations (which were awesome by the way, great for us "Natties" to get some exposure) you mentioned you use 15-20 gms of BCAA post workout. I know you follow this up with a whole meal about an hour later, but why do you feel this is more beneficial than say getting a whey protein that is a complete protein that has a good BCAA profile post workout? Do the BCAA's lead to greater/faster protein synthesis than whey?

        Thanks!
        Ryan
        good question ryan. I think you are saying that whey may be better since it has all the aminos. The BCAAs in particular leucine are the amino acids responsible for stimulating protein synthesis... not the others. The others are needed as substrates but if you are eating like a typical bodybuilder (every 2-3 hours) then you will have AMPLE levels of all the other amino acids and BCAAs alone will be sufficient. And yes the reason I like free form bcaas is because they spike plasma BCAA levels to a much greater extent than whey
        BioLayne LLC
        PhD, Nutritional Sciences
        Scivation Athlete
        MD Columnist
        Website

        Comment


        • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
          good question ryan. I think you are saying that whey may be better since it has all the aminos. The BCAAs in particular leucine are the amino acids responsible for stimulating protein synthesis... not the others. The others are needed as substrates but if you are eating like a typical bodybuilder (every 2-3 hours) then you will have AMPLE levels of all the other amino acids and BCAAs alone will be sufficient. And yes the reason I like free form bcaas is because they spike plasma BCAA levels to a much greater extent than whey
          That is very interesting. You would think that more people would be doing this (of course once your research goes world-wide they will). I am at 160lbs, do you think 15 grams is about the right amount for my bodyweight? I assume powder is best for the quickest absorbtion?

          Thanks!
          www.naturaliowamuscle.com
          www.heartlandclassic.com

          Comment


          • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
            good question ryan. I think you are saying that whey may be better since it has all the aminos. The BCAAs in particular leucine are the amino acids responsible for stimulating protein synthesis... not the others. The others are needed as substrates but if you are eating like a typical bodybuilder (every 2-3 hours) then you will have AMPLE levels of all the other amino acids and BCAAs alone will be sufficient. And yes the reason I like free form bcaas is because they spike plasma BCAA levels to a much greater extent than whey
            Sorry to sound dumb...but do you not use whey then?

            Comment


            • Layne, So gluconeogensis is the bio-synthesis of glucose, and starting with pyruvic acid the body converts amino acids into glycogen?? I've also read that amino acids aren't the only source the body can pull to form glucose, it can also use lactic acid, and glycerol from Fat, have you heard of this? If so, is there a general percentage of how much each option is utilized during or before gluconeogensis? Which brings me to this point...If one is on a ketogenic diet would supplementing (high dosages) of bcaa's even more relevant to a bodybuilders diet? Would a ketogenic individual have a better response to bcaa's?

              Comment


              • **be more relevant to..**

                Comment


                • Originally posted by AlteredBeast86 View Post
                  Layne, So gluconeogensis is the bio-synthesis of glucose, and starting with pyruvic acid the body converts amino acids into glycogen?? I've also read that amino acids aren't the only source the body can pull to form glucose, it can also use lactic acid, and glycerol from Fat, have you heard of this? If so, is there a general percentage of how much each option is utilized during or before gluconeogensis? Which brings me to this point...If one is on a ketogenic diet would supplementing (high dosages) of bcaa's even more relevant to a bodybuilders diet? Would a ketogenic individual have a better response to bcaa's?
                  i'm not sure why a person on keto would have a better/worse response... i'd imagine about the same.

                  you are right on gluconeogenesis. many different substrates though the main ones are amino acids. Which ones are used really really really depends on the physiological situation. I'm afraid you want a simple answer to a ridiculously complex question and I can't give you that on that one.
                  BioLayne LLC
                  PhD, Nutritional Sciences
                  Scivation Athlete
                  MD Columnist
                  Website

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ah24 View Post
                    Sorry to sound dumb...but do you not use whey then?
                    yea i use whey as well
                    BioLayne LLC
                    PhD, Nutritional Sciences
                    Scivation Athlete
                    MD Columnist
                    Website

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DEDICATE92 View Post
                      That is very interesting. You would think that more people would be doing this (of course once your research goes world-wide they will). I am at 160lbs, do you think 15 grams is about the right amount for my bodyweight? I assume powder is best for the quickest absorbtion?

                      Thanks!
                      15g is more than enough, powder is best
                      BioLayne LLC
                      PhD, Nutritional Sciences
                      Scivation Athlete
                      MD Columnist
                      Website

                      Comment


                      • Layne

                        good info, how/what do I need to buy BCAAs? gnc? web? what would be commercial name?

                        thanks!

                        Comment


                        • Good question DEDICATE92 I was wondering about that as well. So when you take in a high dose of BCAA's the leucine not only drives higher rates of protein synthesis but what about insulin?

                          I asked this over in the science board but was curious on what Layne felt in more detail.

                          Question:

                          Is the high amount of leucine say 4-5 grams (out of 10Gs of a bCaa mix of 2:1:1) with the post-workout whey shake enough to cause an insulin spike to work as a carrier/transport for aminos, creatine, beta-alanine etc etc thus negating the need for high gi index carbs in the post workout shake?
                          "You told Harpo to beat me" - Color Purple

                          Comment


                          • Layne, I'm curious as to how many hours of sleep you average per night. I usually only get 5-6 (due to law school and work). Obviously, it's best to get as much as one can, but do you think the aforementioned amount is hampering gains in any significant way?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ccc_javier View Post
                              Layne

                              good info, how/what do I need to buy BCAAs? gnc? web? what would be commercial name?

                              thanks!
                              btw the best place Ive seen is bulknutrition.com. They sell bulk powder 1,000G cheap. They even sell pure leucine 500 G.

                              Only warning though is if u mix them into something the Leucine is like highly resistant to mixing. Blender works best. BCAAs arent as bad. They both taste nasty as hell plain.
                              Last edited by Geminon; August 2, 2007, 02:41 PM. Reason: left out a point
                              "You told Harpo to beat me" - Color Purple

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
                                i appreciate the compliment.

                                who said chocolate was anabolic?
                                i was reading an article on bb.com and it said that the fats and cocoa are realyl good for testosterone levels. you havent heard anything about this???
                                http://www.facebook.com/pages/Need-T...2163615?ref=ts

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