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Layne Norton

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  • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
    i tried it before and my body shrank up pretty fast, it simply did not work for me
    I knew you would have tried it...since u cover all bases.

    ps- check out that Nasser shot on my avatar...that should pump u up to attack those weights one of my fav pics in history.

    enjoy ur day thanks for the answers.

    Comment


    • Layne,

      Do you give your body time to adjust after a contest before you start your first bulk cycle? Even though I'm not quite 8 weeks out, want to start planning (failure to plan is planning to fail!)

      I was thinking a gradual increase (maybe 150 per week?) would be wise until I'm 300 Kcals above maintenance, then hold that for the 6-8 week bulk cycle.

      Your thoughts on that? Thanks!
      www.naturaliowamuscle.com
      www.heartlandclassic.com

      Comment


      • I just wrote something about this on another forum

        Post contest is a very difficult situation and if you go on a full out bulk post contest you are going to do nothing but get fat. Usually what I do is take the carb amount that the person was taking in before the show and add 50g to it, while keeping protein & fat the same, maybe slightly higher on fat. After they stop gaining weight from this; I add in another 20g of carbs & 5g of fat, when they stop gaining weight on that; I add another 25g of carbs and so on and so forth. typically it takes about 10-16 weeks to get back into a full blown offseason; but done right, the fat gain can be kept to a minimum

        this was also posted by madman911 on my forum and I thought it was right on target

        "We've all heard of the anabolic rebound after contest prep, and many gurus advocate eating like a horse immediately after a contest to take advantage of the huge lean gains possible during this period, but I gotta agree with Layne that it doesn't work that way. The body wants to get back to its baseline body fat levels ASAP, that will always be the body's first order of business when your body fat is literally at starvation levels. I don't agree with the assertion that the body tends toward lean mass gains when body fat is low, I believe that the body likely gains lean mass most efficiently when a threshold level of body fat is achieved. When the body is satisfied that it is no longer in immediate danger of starvation, then an environment promoting lean mass gains is created. The ultimate goal should be to gradually bring the body up to that threshold level of body fat in a slow, controlled way without exceeding what is necessary to promote muscle growth. Many bodybuilders no doubt believe they are gaining tons of lean mass post-contest (not saying that's you quelly, you seem smarter than that), when, in reality, they are adding 2 points to their body fat each week. Going from 5% to 10% bodyfat in the first 2-3 weeks post-contest seems very common and I'm sure most guys think they're packing on slabs of muscle and they are just 'holding water' post-contest and that's why they're looking smooth again.... Nope, you're just 5% fatter."
        BioLayne LLC
        PhD, Nutritional Sciences
        Scivation Athlete
        MD Columnist
        Website

        Comment


        • Thanks, very good advice. I agree and almost think that controlling yourself after the contest is harder than dieting down! But it definately pays dividends...

          After my last contest, I actually didn't take a week off until 3 weeks after. I figured with the increased amounts of food (not over-board) my body might enjoy it. Granted, I did back off on the training intensity and reduced the cardio, but still hit the gym. I found this helped my body adjust and kept me leaner.

          Do you usually take the traditional week off or do you come back on Monday and start it up again?

          Many thanks Layne!
          www.naturaliowamuscle.com
          www.heartlandclassic.com

          Comment


          • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
            I just wrote something about this on another forum

            Post contest is a very difficult situation and if you go on a full out bulk post contest you are going to do nothing but get fat. Usually what I do is take the carb amount that the person was taking in before the show and add 50g to it, while keeping protein & fat the same, maybe slightly higher on fat. After they stop gaining weight from this; I add in another 20g of carbs & 5g of fat, when they stop gaining weight on that; I add another 25g of carbs and so on and so forth. typically it takes about 10-16 weeks to get back into a full blown offseason; but done right, the fat gain can be kept to a minimum

            this was also posted by madman911 on my forum and I thought it was right on target

            "We've all heard of the anabolic rebound after contest prep, and many gurus advocate eating like a horse immediately after a contest to take advantage of the huge lean gains possible during this period, but I gotta agree with Layne that it doesn't work that way. The body wants to get back to its baseline body fat levels ASAP, that will always be the body's first order of business when your body fat is literally at starvation levels. I don't agree with the assertion that the body tends toward lean mass gains when body fat is low, I believe that the body likely gains lean mass most efficiently when a threshold level of body fat is achieved. When the body is satisfied that it is no longer in immediate danger of starvation, then an environment promoting lean mass gains is created. The ultimate goal should be to gradually bring the body up to that threshold level of body fat in a slow, controlled way without exceeding what is necessary to promote muscle growth. Many bodybuilders no doubt believe they are gaining tons of lean mass post-contest (not saying that's you quelly, you seem smarter than that), when, in reality, they are adding 2 points to their body fat each week. Going from 5% to 10% bodyfat in the first 2-3 weeks post-contest seems very common and I'm sure most guys think they're packing on slabs of muscle and they are just 'holding water' post-contest and that's why they're looking smooth again.... Nope, you're just 5% fatter."

            Hi Layne,
            Does this (especially the line I highlighted above), in other words, means that the body typically needs 10 to 16 weeks to reset its metabolism? Because a cutting diet is catabolic per se, even the most thought out carb cycle, will lead to a metabolic drop, right?

            Let's imagine you cut on 12 Kcal/lbs of BW a day. Usually (or theoretically here) if you want to maintain fat loss the longer you're in the diet, the lower the calories fall, even if you cycle and try to minimise this effect.
            So in reality even if you make your calories go progressively lower and lower, you constantly stay on 12 Kcal/lbs BW/day BUT BASED on your CONSTANTLY DECREASING BMR.

            Which leads to another question, or maybe a way to evaluate/calculate your current BMR at different times into the diet. Which would actually be a quiet useful tool, I think.

            I'd be really interested to hear what you think about this.
            Oh, and as usual, thank you in advance.

            Paul.

            Comment


            • Hey Layne, do you think that is okay to fruit, I usually go for apples and bananas, when bulking or are they stored as fat too easily

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Paul Dilate View Post
                Hi Layne,
                Does this (especially the line I highlighted above), in other words, means that the body typically needs 10 to 16 weeks to reset its metabolism? Because a cutting diet is catabolic per se, even the most thought out carb cycle, will lead to a metabolic drop, right?

                Let's imagine you cut on 12 Kcal/lbs of BW a day. Usually (or theoretically here) if you want to maintain fat loss the longer you're in the diet, the lower the calories fall, even if you cycle and try to minimise this effect.
                So in reality even if you make your calories go progressively lower and lower, you constantly stay on 12 Kcal/lbs BW/day BUT BASED on your CONSTANTLY DECREASING BMR.

                Which leads to another question, or maybe a way to evaluate/calculate your current BMR at different times into the diet. Which would actually be a quiet useful tool, I think.

                I'd be really interested to hear what you think about this.
                Oh, and as usual, thank you in advance.

                Paul.
                the more of a caloric deficit you go into the more your metabolism slows.

                and yes it takes that long to 'reset' your metabolism
                BioLayne LLC
                PhD, Nutritional Sciences
                Scivation Athlete
                MD Columnist
                Website

                Comment


                • Originally posted by philborg View Post
                  Hey Layne, do you think that is okay to fruit, I usually go for apples and bananas, when bulking or are they stored as fat too easily
                  they are fine in moderation yes
                  BioLayne LLC
                  PhD, Nutritional Sciences
                  Scivation Athlete
                  MD Columnist
                  Website

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
                    I just wrote something about this on another forum

                    Post contest is a very difficult situation and if you go on a full out bulk post contest you are going to do nothing but get fat. Usually what I do is take the carb amount that the person was taking in before the show and add 50g to it, while keeping protein & fat the same, maybe slightly higher on fat. After they stop gaining weight from this; I add in another 20g of carbs & 5g of fat, when they stop gaining weight on that; I add another 25g of carbs and so on and so forth. typically it takes about 10-16 weeks to get back into a full blown offseason; but done right, the fat gain can be kept to a minimum

                    this was also posted by madman911 on my forum and I thought it was right on target

                    "We've all heard of the anabolic rebound after contest prep, and many gurus advocate eating like a horse immediately after a contest to take advantage of the huge lean gains possible during this period, but I gotta agree with Layne that it doesn't work that way. The body wants to get back to its baseline body fat levels ASAP, that will always be the body's first order of business when your body fat is literally at starvation levels. I don't agree with the assertion that the body tends toward lean mass gains when body fat is low, I believe that the body likely gains lean mass most efficiently when a threshold level of body fat is achieved. When the body is satisfied that it is no longer in immediate danger of starvation, then an environment promoting lean mass gains is created. The ultimate goal should be to gradually bring the body up to that threshold level of body fat in a slow, controlled way without exceeding what is necessary to promote muscle growth. Many bodybuilders no doubt believe they are gaining tons of lean mass post-contest (not saying that's you quelly, you seem smarter than that), when, in reality, they are adding 2 points to their body fat each week. Going from 5% to 10% bodyfat in the first 2-3 weeks post-contest seems very common and I'm sure most guys think they're packing on slabs of muscle and they are just 'holding water' post-contest and that's why they're looking smooth again.... Nope, you're just 5% fatter."

                    interesting thought but isn't it just that? a speculation?

                    couldn't it also be said that since your muscles were in a starvation type period for so long (heavy workouts + restricted calories) that they would be readily available to absorb nutrients and supercompensate if you will for the lack of food available while dieting? also you will be able to work out with more intensity, etc.

                    just playing devils advocate i don't know if one way is right or the other

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Train_Smart View Post
                      interesting thought but isn't it just that? a speculation?

                      couldn't it also be said that since your muscles were in a starvation type period for so long (heavy workouts + restricted calories) that they would be readily available to absorb nutrients and supercompensate if you will for the lack of food available while dieting? also you will be able to work out with more intensity, etc.

                      just playing devils advocate i don't know if one way is right or the other
                      long dieting = low leptin, low T3, reduced metabolic rate = primed to store fat

                      sure it's speculation but it's based on years of research on my part and also years of experimentation with myself and people I work with
                      BioLayne LLC
                      PhD, Nutritional Sciences
                      Scivation Athlete
                      MD Columnist
                      Website

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
                        long dieting = low leptin, low T3, reduced metabolic rate = primed to store fat

                        sure it's speculation but it's based on years of research on my part and also years of experimentation with myself and people I work with
                        I'm sure there's stacks of anecdotal evidence to support it. It's definitely the case with me at least.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
                          long dieting = low leptin, low T3, reduced metabolic rate = primed to store fat

                          sure it's speculation but it's based on years of research on my part and also years of experimentation with myself and people I work with

                          Layne,

                          just wondering with your cycle of bulk for 6-8 weeks then 2 weeks of cut, when you go back to bulk do you raise calories right back up or introduce slowly again? going on previous conversations on this thread if you raised them right back up you would raise the posibility of storing fat. interested in your thoughts again?

                          Sam

                          Comment


                          • Xtend good stuff!

                            Layne,

                            Got a container of the Scivation Xtend and used it this morning for the first time, good stuff! Compared to most BCAA's, not grainy and definately has a good taste!

                            Also, after a contest, do you usually take the traditional week off or do you come back on Monday and start it up again at a lower intensity to help get your body back in the groove?

                            Thanks again and look forward to using the Xtend in my stack!
                            www.naturaliowamuscle.com
                            www.heartlandclassic.com

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by irvston View Post
                              Layne,

                              just wondering with your cycle of bulk for 6-8 weeks then 2 weeks of cut, when you go back to bulk do you raise calories right back up or introduce slowly again? going on previous conversations on this thread if you raised them right back up you would raise the posibility of storing fat. interested in your thoughts again?

                              Sam
                              Layne will jump in and answer this one on his own, but from what I've gathered, he raises the calories right back up immediately. Thus (for those who may not understand), if you've been cutting on 2500 calories for the two week period, then on the first day of the third week, you'd go right back up to your bulking calories (i.e. 3500).

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by irvston View Post
                                Layne,

                                just wondering with your cycle of bulk for 6-8 weeks then 2 weeks of cut, when you go back to bulk do you raise calories right back up or introduce slowly again? going on previous conversations on this thread if you raised them right back up you would raise the posibility of storing fat. interested in your thoughts again?

                                Sam
                                my previous conversations were regarding a long contest prep diet which is totally different than a 2 week cut TOTALLY different. In this case you are taking advantage of a metabolic swing. You'd want to increase them quickly
                                BioLayne LLC
                                PhD, Nutritional Sciences
                                Scivation Athlete
                                MD Columnist
                                Website

                                Comment

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