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Layne Norton

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  • Originally posted by Apex23 View Post
    Layne,

    I was wondering if you have any idea of why Vanadyl gives me a bad headache even when taken with plenty of carbs?

    Also do you think it could possible pull more creatine into the muscle?


    Thx
    no i don't think it will pull more creatine into the cell; not sure about the headaches.
    BioLayne LLC
    PhD, Nutritional Sciences
    Scivation Athlete
    MD Columnist
    Website

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    • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
      if you want health effects i'd take 3-5/day


      I put a premium on hitting my macros but that doesn't mean I eat pizza, etc everyday. Normally I eat like the typical bodybuilder for the most part; but I don't kill myself if I have a slice of pizza here or there because I NEVER binge which is far far far more damaging
      thanks on the green tea , yea defintly eating as healthy as possible , just hated trying writing everything in a book , made me feel like it was all about the book to have a good day and instead of how i should be feeling and looking in the mirror , and defintly hitting macros

      thanks again layne

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      • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
        so you are looking for the benefits of red wine without the alcohol/carbs correct?

        yeh. that's what I meant. The math of exactly which benefits and how much of each of those is probably just something personal i have to work out for myself though. So far I manage okay.

        thanks anyway :-).

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        • you might look at grape seed extract
          BioLayne LLC
          PhD, Nutritional Sciences
          Scivation Athlete
          MD Columnist
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          • Grape seed doesn't have enough ethyl acetate for my purposes. thanks for saying sommething though.

            cheers.

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            • no but it does have the resveratrol as well as many other anti-oxidants
              BioLayne LLC
              PhD, Nutritional Sciences
              Scivation Athlete
              MD Columnist
              Website

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              • [quote=Apex23;277351]Layne,

                I was wondering if you have any idea of why Vanadyl gives me a bad headache even when taken with plenty of carbs?

                Also do you think it could possible pull more creatine into the muscle?


                Thx[/quote

                I'm not Layne but I think I'm just as qualified to answer this question.
                The headache is the first sign that your blood sugar has dropped below normal levels. Now to know exactly how the blood sugar is being affected you would need to use a GLUCOMETER. However since most dont advocate the use of one you will just have to GUESS. My suggestion is lower the amount of Vanadyl to 5 mgs or even 2.5 but the only way to know how much is most effective OR EVEN USEFULL is to monitor your glucose levels with and without the use of it.
                TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
                Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

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                • I would think you would get other symptoms other than just headache if blood sugar was dropping, nausea being first, though I could be wrong. Also, Vanadyl only increases basal glucose uptake and not insulin stimulated glucose update from what I've read; and I believe he was taking it with a meal unless I'm mistaken, so in my opinion, I'm not sure it would cause blood glucose to fall, especially in the face of a meal. But getting a blood glucose test would certainly tell for sure.
                  BioLayne LLC
                  PhD, Nutritional Sciences
                  Scivation Athlete
                  MD Columnist
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                  • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
                    I would think you would get other symptoms other than just headache if blood sugar was dropping, nausea being first, though I could be wrong. Also, Vanadyl only increases basal glucose uptake and not insulin stimulated glucose update from what I've read; and I believe he was taking it with a meal unless I'm mistaken, so in my opinion, I'm not sure it would cause blood glucose to fall, especially in the face of a meal. But getting a blood glucose test would certainly tell for sure.

                    I have to disagree with you here. I'm slightly hypoglycemic. I wake around 70. Ask anybody that is hypoglycemic, or better yet ask any old person who uses insulin. Whats the first sign of low blood sugar and they will tell you its a mild headache followed by nausea, sweating, heavy breathing and last anxiety. Yes vanadyl removes blood sugar on its own without insulin. Ive been able to get it into the 60's with ketones on my breath and positive on a keto stick at 318 carbs a day using JUST vanadyl. The headaches were constant. I was using over 100mgs daily...LOL
                    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
                    Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

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                    • my point is that if he was taking it with his meal vanadyl has not been shown to increase insulin mediated glucose uptake... only basal. If he was getting these headaches between meals that would make sense; but not with meals
                      BioLayne LLC
                      PhD, Nutritional Sciences
                      Scivation Athlete
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                      • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
                        my point is that if he was taking it with his meal vanadyl has not been shown to increase insulin mediated glucose uptake... only basal. If he was getting these headaches between meals that would make sense; but not with meals
                        Im sure it doesnt take a rocket scientist to realize that they came following the use of vanadyl and after the meal which means hes inbetween meals. So tell me, besides what you read do you have any experience at all testing glucose levels following the consumption of carbs with and without vanadyl or any gda. If its just what you read then lets end this conversation. Just curious because I've done hundreds of tests over the past few years using them and YES it lowers blood sugar levels past anybodies desireable point. Very much like metformin but not as strong. Maybe you read fast but as I said earlier I am able to keep my blood sugar levels at 60 or so at just over 300 carbs daily. Feel like shit but still look good. I'm sure you know Blood sugar levels and muscle glycogen levels are two completely different things. I dont know many people other than those who use metformin during contest prep that are able to keep muscle glycogen saturation while depleting blood glucose levels. I know you are natural and might not know about this practice since its a prescription gda. If you do know about this practice then Im wasting my time because you know this already.
                        TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
                        Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

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                        • any particular reason you are being so abrasive?
                          BioLayne LLC
                          PhD, Nutritional Sciences
                          Scivation Athlete
                          MD Columnist
                          Website

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                          • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
                            no but it does have the resveratrol as well as many other anti-oxidants

                            and I appreciate your trying.
                            I had a look at straight resveratrol a little while ago but I couldn't see where exactly was going to do.
                            Can you sell me on it?


                            Hey Tipsta. Are you sure those headaches aren't because of an exaccerbated electrolyte delpetion and amino unbalance? maybe smaller more frequent sturdier carbs? Have you ever considered using glyercol during those times? That you're out of balance with sommething or other is pretty obvious. Otherwise the headaches just wouldn't happen. It sounds like an overheated fluid line. so many ways to rectify that.
                            Last edited by Blooming lotus; September 6, 2007, 05:42 PM.

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                            • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
                              any particular reason you are being so abrasive?

                              Layne read one of about 500 of his posts

                              they are ALL the same....very dogmatic and confrontational
                              MorphogenNutrition.com
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                              • Originally posted by Blooming lotus View Post
                                Hey Tipsta. Are you sure those headaches aren't because of an exaccerbated electrolyte delpetion and amino unbalance?

                                that's hilarious

                                his NA/K weren't in the perfect 10:1 ratio
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