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Layne Norton

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  • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
    this is from an article i wrote

    Despite the numerous positive benefits to BCAA supplementation, there are many skeptics who suggest that BCAAs are overpriced and that one can just increase their consumption of whey protein which is rich in BCAAs. Unfortunately this is not the case. The BCAAs in whey are peptide bound to other amino acids and must be liberated through digestion & absorbed into the bloodstream to exert their effects. Even though whey protein is relatively fast digesting, it still takes several hours for all the amino acids to be liberated & absorbed into the bloodstream. BCAAs in supplement form however, are free form BCAAs and require no digestion and are therefore rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream, spiking blood amino acids to a much greater extent than peptide bound amino acids. Even a few grams of BCAAs will spike plasma levels of BCAAs to a much greater extent than a 30g dose of whey protein, impacting protein synthesis and protein degradation to a much greater degree. The reason a supplement has such a powerful effect on blood levels of BCAAs is that unlike other amino acids, BCAAs are not metabolized to a significant extent by the small intestine or the liver, therefore an oral supplement is more like a BCAA injection since it reaches the bloodstream so rapidly.

    http://www.strengthandscience.com/january/article5.htm
    Dave Plaumbo had this to say about your article:

    " How does he explain the fact that PEPTIDE-bound amino acids are more easily absorbed than free form amino acids? In fact, Scott Connelly (the inventor of Met-**) is coming out with a new product (a new company) that contains WHEY FRACTIONS that stimulate protein synthesis better than anything previously seen."




    so the plot thickens. Lateron he said

    "I'm not a big believer in BCAA's. The truth is that DI and TRI PEPTIDES are more easily assimilated and absorbed than are free form aminos. If you take in 6 solid meals containing high quality protein, your amino acid levels in your bloodstream should always be sufficient to support muscle growth and repair. Will it hurt to take them? Of course not. Is it vital? I'd say no!"

    I'd be very very interested to hear your thoughts on this Layne because while BCAA are grilled into us as being important (free form that is). Maybe that statement is over hyped? Can you refute this research that Plaumbo seems to be referring to that says di/tri peptides are better sources of BCAAs than free form. Hydrolyzed Whey > free form BCAA I take it is what he is getting at.
    Last edited by Geminon; October 18, 2007, 02:53 AM. Reason: added second quote
    "You told Harpo to beat me" - Color Purple

    Comment


    • YO LAYNE and HELLO EVERYONE!

      For those who don't know, I am Marc Lobliner, owner of Scivation and Primaforce. I am here to support Layne and help in whatever way I can!


      YEAH BUDDY!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by TheAnvil View Post
        Dave Plaumbo had this to say about your article:

        " How does he explain the fact that PEPTIDE-bound amino acids are more easily absorbed than free form amino acids? In fact, Scott Connelly (the inventor of Met-**) is coming out with a new product (a new company) that contains WHEY FRACTIONS that stimulate protein synthesis better than anything previously seen."




        so the plot thickens. Lateron he said

        "I'm not a big believer in BCAA's. The truth is that DI and TRI PEPTIDES are more easily assimilated and absorbed than are free form aminos. If you take in 6 solid meals containing high quality protein, your amino acid levels in your bloodstream should always be sufficient to support muscle growth and repair. Will it hurt to take them? Of course not. Is it vital? I'd say no!"

        I'd be very very interested to hear your thoughts on this Layne because while BCAA are grilled into us as being important (free form that is). Maybe that statement is over hyped? Can you refute this research that Plaumbo seems to be referring to that says di/tri peptides are better sources of BCAAs than free form. Hydrolyzed Whey > free form BCAA I take it is what he is getting at.
        I actually read a few statements similar to the ones you quoted above in my nutrition text book. Regardless...nic loves his apple xtend

        Comment


        • well di-peptides and tri-peptides are absorbed more rapidly due to the greater prescence of a transportor for them, however, it appears BCAA can be transported very rapidly as well (most likely because when you take bcaa you are only taking a few grams at a time, wheras with whey you are taking 30-40g) so while there are more transportors for di & tri-peptides, you are also putting a greater load on them. when you take a smaller dose of bcaa 5-15g then there is more than enough transportor capacity to handle them. This is evidenced by the work of koopman et. al who showed that even a comparatively small dose of leucine could cause an almost 2 fold increase in plasma leucine compared to whey. Whey alone will get plasma leucine to about 300uM (280 in my research) wheras adding leucine to it can get it near 700uM.

          Let's not go back and forth between me and dave and turn this into an argument. He is entitled to have his opinion, as am I.
          BioLayne LLC
          PhD, Nutritional Sciences
          Scivation Athlete
          MD Columnist
          Website

          Comment


          • the other thing i forgot to mention is that you have to keep in mind most amino acids are extensively metabolized by the liver. Only about 23% of ingested amino acids actually make it into the plasma because they are so extensively metabolized by the gut & liver. The BCAAs really aren't touched at all by either because the liver lacks the BCAT enzyme which catalyzes the first step of BCAA catabolism. Thus BCAA are much much different than any other type of amino acids... even though di & tri peptides may be absorbed 'faster' in some cases, they are also less likely to make it to circulation due to extensive metabolism by the gut & liver.

            -Layne
            BioLayne LLC
            PhD, Nutritional Sciences
            Scivation Athlete
            MD Columnist
            Website

            Comment


            • Layne,
              I had my physical this morning and I was literally told that if I keep using protein powder that my liver and kidneys will fail and I will die. She said she had seen it before. I cant believe this stuff sometimes.
              NGA Pro Bodybuilder

              Comment


              • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
                i always have to use the bathroom every night without fail
                LOL, yea it never fails after having a shake at 10:00 -10:30
                Cancer SURVIVOR

                "Falling isn't FAILURE, FAILURE is not getting back up"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by crou View Post
                  Layne,
                  I had my physical this morning and I was literally told that if I keep using protein powder that my liver and kidneys will fail and I will die. She said she had seen it before. I cant believe this stuff sometimes.


                  several years ago my family physician told me the same thing

                  when I presented him with research to back up my protein powder use, he said "Well yeah you're technically correct, but your mom wanted me to make sure you were being safe"

                  upon which I said "So you either didn't know what you were talking about or you lied to me"

                  a few months later he had a heart attack

                  I win


                  (he's fine now, for the record)
                  MorphogenNutrition.com
                  Facebook.com/MorphogenNutrition

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by bhman6 View Post
                    several years ago my family physician told me the same thing

                    when I presented him with research to back up my protein powder use, he said "Well yeah you're technically correct, but your mom wanted me to make sure you were being safe"

                    upon which I said "So you either didn't know what you were talking about or you lied to me"

                    a few months later he had a heart attack

                    I win


                    (he's fine now, for the record)
                    Hahaha I loved the added caveat at the end there. How can doctors still preach this when there is so much information out there that says the opposite is true. Also, how did this myth start?
                    NGA Pro Bodybuilder

                    Comment


                    • Layne, Cardio question for you.

                      Talking with a guy at my gym, he told me about the way his trainer has him doing cardio at the moment. I've done it before, not for any specific reason but just to mix things up. I was wondering if you had a scientific opinion of it.

                      -slight warm up
                      -10 or so minutes of very intense interval training (supposedly to free up and "mobilize" fat stores)
                      -then continue on with 20-30 minutes of low intensity steady cardio (typically refered to as fat burning (roughly 60-65%), to burn off what you freed up during the intervals)

                      Seems to make some sense, except that, at high intensities, the prefered source of fuel would be glycogen, no?
                      Curious on what you think.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by crou View Post
                        Layne,
                        I had my physical this morning and I was literally told that if I keep using protein powder that my liver and kidneys will fail and I will die. She said she had seen it before. I cant believe this stuff sometimes.
                        2 guys at my gym just went through the exact same thing!! HAHA

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by tjoe View Post
                          Layne, Cardio question for you.

                          Talking with a guy at my gym, he told me about the way his trainer has him doing cardio at the moment. I've done it before, not for any specific reason but just to mix things up. I was wondering if you had a scientific opinion of it.

                          -slight warm up
                          -10 or so minutes of very intense interval training (supposedly to free up and "mobilize" fat stores)
                          -then continue on with 20-30 minutes of low intensity steady cardio (typically refered to as fat burning (roughly 60-65%), to burn off what you freed up during the intervals)

                          Seems to make some sense, except that, at high intensities, the prefered source of fuel would be glycogen, no?
                          Curious on what you think.
                          as much as people would like to have you believe that glycogen is the only fuel you use during high intensity that is non-sense. This is the problem with 'gurus' who know a little bit, they know just enough to be dangerous.

                          1) you only need oxygen to oxidize fat, you don't need it to liberate (lipolysis) from fat tissue. High intensity cardio causes a LARGE dumping of free fatty acids into the bloodstream
                          You see, for the brief part of the interval where you are oxygen depraved you will use glucose... but during the 40-50 seconds of low intensity of the interval where you are 'resting' your body will initiate a large scale oxidation of fatty acids in order to spare glucose. Your body is VERY stingy with glycogen and WILL NOT use muscle glycogen unless it absolutely has to. So you are burning glycogen yes, but you are also burning a ton of fat. The idea that you only burn one or the other is idiocy spewed by morons. (sorry guess i'm in a pissy mood today lol)

                          I actually have many clients who's legs have trouble getting lean do something similar to what you talked about (high intensity followed by low/moderate intensity)

                          -Layne
                          BioLayne LLC
                          PhD, Nutritional Sciences
                          Scivation Athlete
                          MD Columnist
                          Website

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
                            as much as people would like to have you believe that glycogen is the only fuel you use during high intensity that is non-sense. This is the problem with 'gurus' who know a little bit, they know just enough to be dangerous.

                            1) you only need oxygen to oxidize fat, you don't need it to liberate (lipolysis) from fat tissue. High intensity cardio causes a LARGE dumping of free fatty acids into the bloodstream
                            You see, for the brief part of the interval where you are oxygen depraved you will use glucose... but during the 40-50 seconds of low intensity of the interval where you are 'resting' your body will initiate a large scale oxidation of fatty acids in order to spare glucose. Your body is VERY stingy with glycogen and WILL NOT use muscle glycogen unless it absolutely has to. So you are burning glycogen yes, but you are also burning a ton of fat. The idea that you only burn one or the other is idiocy spewed by morons. (sorry guess i'm in a pissy mood today lol)

                            I actually have many clients who's legs have trouble getting lean do something similar to what you talked about (high intensity followed by low/moderate intensity)

                            -Layne
                            Don't be cranky.
                            I know you don't burn one or the other but a combination of both. Just wanted to see if it made sense to do a bit of interval training followed by low int. That last sentance summed it up perfectly. Interestingly enough, the guy that brought it up said his legs are coming in much better now.
                            Thanks for the response, and I hope yer day gets better.
                            Peace

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
                              Let's not go back and forth between me and dave and turn this into an argument. He is entitled to have his opinion, as am I.
                              I doesn't have to be an ugly argument; a bit of debate is healthy. I'm really fascinated by what you both have to say. This process of debate is turning out to be very illuminating!

                              Comment


                              • Layne, I made a stupid mistake, because i pigged out after my contest and summer was near and i got desperate to in get in shape for summer, so i bought havoc and did a cycle during the summer, will I ever be able to compete as a natural again? I never did a ph before nor touch any kind of performance enhancing drugs. How long should I wait before I do a tested show? 2 years?

                                Would I only be limited NPC? Could I do OCB? If you were in my shoes what would you do?

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