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Layne Norton

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  • i'm sure you have answered this Layne, but i couldnt find it,

    what are your thoughts on joint support meaning what works best? i feel joint support is very important and have my own views but i was curious to what your views are.


    cissus? G and C? Naproxin Sodium? fish oil (it seems to have tendencies to help with joints)?

    thanks
    grant'
    Teen NPC competitor.

    Writer/promoter
    JackedWithoutJuice.com

    Comment


    • Originally posted by wakingmalice View Post
      i'm sure you have answered this Layne, but i couldnt find it,

      what are your thoughts on joint support meaning what works best? i feel joint support is very important and have my own views but i was curious to what your views are.


      cissus? G and C? Naproxin Sodium? fish oil (it seems to have tendencies to help with joints)?

      thanks
      grant'
      Not to step on big Layne's toes but just to share my experience. I have used various glucosamine supplements always dosing 1500-2000mg daily. Some with chondroitin & MSM, other times not. I still have joint pain mild in the knees & elbows, mild to moderate shoulders, moderate to severe back pain.

      I ran USP Labs Supper Cissus x3 bottles at the rec dosing then ramped it up to max dosing. No solid benefits whatsoever. Purely a waste of cash for me but others swear by it.

      Naproxin is an NSAID and if you are not susceptible to bleeding issues, GI bleed, gastric ulcers by all means use it but it can have long term effects on the GI (stomach/intestines). Try not to dose close to 4 hrs pre-training b/c it may mask the injury allowing you to further damage a joint. You can use heat just prior to training as long as it is not an acute injury. Even sitting in the sauna for a few minutes then warming up on cardio equipment 5-10 minutes may be beneficial even with non weight bearing joints.

      I strongly recomment icing sore achy joints post training. If you use the NSAIDs use after you ice as this is vasconstriction and NSAIDs and heat are vasodilators.

      I switched to a joint formula by Schiff called Move Free. It has hyaluronic acid I believe at the researched effective dose of 3.3mg along with glucosamin 1500mg, MSM 1500mg, chondroitin 200mg. This plus adding back in Fish Oil dosed at 1-2 caps 2-3 x daily and I've noticed the biggest difference.

      http://www.movefreeadvanced.com/faqs...pplement_facts

      Good Luck
      Last edited by dnice91369; January 18, 2009, 08:31 AM. Reason: addendum
      Humapro - Protein for Humans - alrindustries.com

      Comment


      • Cardio

        Layne, I read the Wilson brothers article in the latest edition of Ironman regarding HIIT/LISS cardio. Do you feel that a short HIIT session finished off with 20-30 minutes of low intensity is an effective way to get the best of both. I know that both protocols are useful in different ways and the Wilsons ideas seem very effective. I have always used both LISS and HIIT on different days based on my weight workouts and energy levels. What are your thoughts?

        Thanks, Mark
        " Sweat the details, it ALL matters"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by dnice91369 View Post
          Not to step on big Layne's toes but just to share my experience. I have used various glucosamine supplements always dosing 1500-2000mg daily. Some with chondroitin & MSM, other times not. I still have joint pain mild in the knees & elbows, mild to moderate shoulders, moderate to severe back pain.

          I ran USP Labs Supper Cissus x3 bottles at the rec dosing then ramped it up to max dosing. No solid benefits whatsoever. Purely a waste of cash for me but others swear by it.

          Naproxin is an NSAID and if you are not susceptible to bleeding issues, GI bleed, gastric ulcers by all means use it but it can have long term effects on the GI (stomach/intestines). Try not to dose close to 4 hrs pre-training b/c it may mask the injury allowing you to further damage a joint. You can use heat just prior to training as long as it is not an acute injury. Even sitting in the sauna for a few minutes then warming up on cardio equipment 5-10 minutes may be beneficial even with non weight bearing joints.

          I strongly recomment icing sore achy joints post training. If you use the NSAIDs use after you ice as this is vasconstriction and NSAIDs and heat are vasodilators.

          I switched to a joint formula by Schiff called Move Free. It has hyaluronic acid I believe at the researched effective dose of 3.3mg along with glucosamin 1500mg, MSM 1500mg, chondroitin 200mg. This plus adding back in Fish Oil dosed at 1-2 caps 2-3 x daily and I've noticed the biggest difference.

          http://www.movefreeadvanced.com/faqs...pplement_facts

          Good Luck

          i'm going to try your schiff stuff. where do you get it? seems like a typical walgreens product. Looks good though, best of every world. I tried cissus aswell, the bulk stuff...that i did drink...and got nothing but another set of balls for attempting to drink that stuff.
          Teen NPC competitor.

          Writer/promoter
          JackedWithoutJuice.com

          Comment


          • Layne,

            I am a fellow natty 2 weeks into my keto diet. I have been told nattys lose muscule on keto diets and i was wondering what you thought about this. I'm 5'10, and my LBM is around 158. Here is my diet, lemme know what you think. Thanks!
            - MM

            MEAL #1
            3 whole OMEGA-3 eggs, 4 liquid egg whites, Creatine and Multi

            MEAL #2
            "Lean Protein Meal": 8oz chicken (Raw weight) and 30g peanuts/almonds or 22.5g walnuts

            MEAL #3
            Pre-Workout Shake: 50g Whey Isolate Protein with 30g of All Natural Peanut butter and 5g of Leucine with Vit C

            Training

            MEAL #4
            Post-Workout Shake: 50g Whey Isolate Protein with 30g of All Natural Peanut butter and 5g of Leucine, and Creatine

            MEAL #5
            "Fatty Protein Meal": 8oz (Raw weight) Salmon or Lean Beef with 1TBS of healthy oil and a green salad with oil and vinegar

            MEAL #6
            3 whole OMEGA-3 eggs and 4 liquid egg whites, with Vit C

            Comment


            • Originally posted by MusclesMarinara View Post
              Layne,

              I am a fellow natty 2 weeks into my keto diet. I have been told nattys lose muscule on keto diets and i was wondering what you thought about this. I'm 5'10, and my LBM is around 158. Here is my diet, lemme know what you think. Thanks!
              - MM

              MEAL #1
              3 whole OMEGA-3 eggs, 4 liquid egg whites, Creatine and Multi

              MEAL #2
              "Lean Protein Meal": 8oz chicken (Raw weight) and 30g peanuts/almonds or 22.5g walnuts

              MEAL #3
              Pre-Workout Shake: 50g Whey Isolate Protein with 30g of All Natural Peanut butter and 5g of Leucine with Vit C

              Training

              MEAL #4
              Post-Workout Shake: 50g Whey Isolate Protein with 30g of All Natural Peanut butter and 5g of Leucine, and Creatine

              MEAL #5
              "Fatty Protein Meal": 8oz (Raw weight) Salmon or Lean Beef with 1TBS of healthy oil and a green salad with oil and vinegar

              MEAL #6
              3 whole OMEGA-3 eggs and 4 liquid egg whites, with Vit C
              Bro, I'm not trying to be a dick, but are you seriously asking me what I think about keto diets? I have literally covered this probably 50 different times on this forum, on MD radio shows, and in various articles. You couldn't try looking around just a little bit?
              BioLayne LLC
              PhD, Nutritional Sciences
              Scivation Athlete
              MD Columnist
              Website

              Comment


              • Originally posted by rockhard View Post
                Layne, I read the Wilson brothers article in the latest edition of Ironman regarding HIIT/LISS cardio. Do you feel that a short HIIT session finished off with 20-30 minutes of low intensity is an effective way to get the best of both. I know that both protocols are useful in different ways and the Wilsons ideas seem very effective. I have always used both LISS and HIIT on different days based on my weight workouts and energy levels. What are your thoughts?

                Thanks, Mark
                yes, I agree with gabe & jake. Not sure I've ever disagreed with them LOL
                BioLayne LLC
                PhD, Nutritional Sciences
                Scivation Athlete
                MD Columnist
                Website

                Comment


                • Originally posted by pumpnirn11 View Post
                  hey layne whats your thoughts on offseason weight?? i know some natties like to stay leaner within a 20 plus range of contest weight... curious on your thoughts... and what if you did got a bit heigher, and realize that even with the weight gain 30+ your still staying lean (visible abs)??
                  if you are taking 2 years off from competing it's probably ok to let yourself get a bit heavier. But if you want to compete every year you best keep it within 20 lbs of contest weight
                  BioLayne LLC
                  PhD, Nutritional Sciences
                  Scivation Athlete
                  MD Columnist
                  Website

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by MusclesMarinara View Post
                    Layne,

                    I am a fellow natty 2 weeks into my keto diet. I have been told nattys lose muscule on keto diets and i was wondering what you thought about this. I'm 5'10, and my LBM is around 158. Here is my diet, lemme know what you think. Thanks!
                    - MM
                    CHO FTW!!!

                    Comment


                    • meal frequency

                      Layne, after hearing your md show...............

                      ive been bodybuilding (non-competitive) now for 21 years. im 35 years old

                      I have been eating 6 meals per day for the last 20 years or so. i often wondered if it made a difference to eat 6 meals per day as oppossed to 3 larger meals.

                      the show was peaking my interest when you were talking about going longer between meals, but then when asked you said you still eat 5 meals per day. i thought you were going to say you had switched to 3 meals per day and got leaner and bigger. that was what i was waiting for. but you didnt.

                      well based on your studies do you think it would be better to eat 3 meals per day with slightly larger portions as oppossed to 6 meals?

                      im 5'6" 197 lbs at 10% bodyfat.

                      would 3 meals be better then 6 ?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by spiderman405 View Post
                        Layne, after hearing your md show...............

                        ive been bodybuilding (non-competitive) now for 21 years. im 35 years old

                        I have been eating 6 meals per day for the last 20 years or so. i often wondered if it made a difference to eat 6 meals per day as oppossed to 3 larger meals.

                        the show was peaking my interest when you were talking about going longer between meals, but then when asked you said you still eat 5 meals per day. i thought you were going to say you had switched to 3 meals per day and got leaner and bigger. that was what i was waiting for. but you didnt.

                        well based on your studies do you think it would be better to eat 3 meals per day with slightly larger portions as oppossed to 6 meals?

                        im 5'6" 197 lbs at 10% bodyfat.

                        would 3 meals be better then 6 ?

                        ......also i dont care much about adding any muscle right now....i just would like to get leaner around 7-8% bodybfat

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by semper27 View Post
                          CHO FTW!!!
                          huh?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by wakingmalice View Post
                            i'm going to try your schiff stuff. where do you get it? seems like a typical walgreens product. Looks good though, best of every world. I tried cissus aswell, the bulk stuff...that i did drink...and got nothing but another set of balls for attempting to drink that stuff.
                            As surprised as I am with the efficacy of this product although it's not a miracle cure or 100% joint pain free product, it does help the best for so far, this shit is at Kroger, Walgreens, Rite Aid, CVS in my area. Yes, your local grocery store or pharmacy. It ran about $20 but was on sale for $16. So it's cheaper than Vitamin Shoppe's similar formula that only has the glucosamin, chondroitn & MSM, no hyaluronic acid (joint fluid).
                            Humapro - Protein for Humans - alrindustries.com

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by spiderman405 View Post
                              Layne, after hearing your md show...............

                              ive been bodybuilding (non-competitive) now for 21 years. im 35 years old

                              I have been eating 6 meals per day for the last 20 years or so. i often wondered if it made a difference to eat 6 meals per day as oppossed to 3 larger meals.

                              the show was peaking my interest when you were talking about going longer between meals, but then when asked you said you still eat 5 meals per day. i thought you were going to say you had switched to 3 meals per day and got leaner and bigger. that was what i was waiting for. but you didnt.

                              well based on your studies do you think it would be better to eat 3 meals per day with slightly larger portions as oppossed to 6 meals?

                              im 5'6" 197 lbs at 10% bodyfat.

                              would 3 meals be better then 6 ?
                              I just think with the amount of calories bodybuilders consume 3 would be difficult logistically. I also don't think it's optimal based on the protein synthesis data my lab has produced. But see you people go again, it either has to be one extreme or the other. IF you tell people they eat too frequently they'll say well I'll just eat 2-3 meals per day... but if you tell them they don't eat frequently enough they'll eat 8-10 meals per day. Find THE MODERATE GROUND! Our labs signaling and protein synthesis data leads me to believe that ever 4-5 hours eating will be best... do I have any rock hard data to support it? No, it's just my theory. Check out the april issue of MD to see my reasoning.

                              -Layne
                              BioLayne LLC
                              PhD, Nutritional Sciences
                              Scivation Athlete
                              MD Columnist
                              Website

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
                                I just think with the amount of calories bodybuilders consume 3 would be difficult logistically. I also don't think it's optimal based on the protein synthesis data my lab has produced. But see you people go again, it either has to be one extreme or the other. IF you tell people they eat too frequently they'll say well I'll just eat 2-3 meals per day... but if you tell them they don't eat frequently enough they'll eat 8-10 meals per day. Find THE MODERATE GROUND! Our labs signaling and protein synthesis data leads me to believe that ever 4-5 hours eating will be best... do I have any rock hard data to support it? No, it's just my theory. Check out the april issue of MD to see my reasoning.

                                -Layne
                                well one reason i asked was because you said you still eat 5 meals per day. well if your eating 4-5 hours apart. that would be a space between meal 1 and meal 5 equally a 20-25 hour gap. well there are only 24 hours in a day.

                                so if you work say an 8-5 p.m. job. you it would be like this

                                7 am meal 1
                                1100 meal 2
                                300 meal 3
                                700 meal 4
                                1100 time to sleep

                                or every 5 hours

                                7 am meal 1
                                1200 meal 2
                                500 meal 3
                                1000 meal 4

                                time for bed.

                                there isnt enough time to eat 5 meals spaced 4-5 hours apart unless you sleeping 4 hours per night

                                but i will definelty read that april issue to see if you break it down in more detail.

                                thanks

                                Comment

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