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**dpd555** · July 6, 2009, 12:03 AM

Layne would probably agree that the body will "utilize" 150g of protein, but not for protein synthesis. You can actually digest an enormous amount of protein, but Layne (and others) have shown that the amount of protein/meal to maximally stimulate protein synthesis isn't that much...maybe like 50g for a "big" guy.

However, large protein meals spaced out tend to digest slower, especially consumed with fat...so eating 100g of protein/meal 3 times/day may make amino acids readily available when spiking protein synthesis with leucine between meals.

**str8flexed** · July 6, 2009, 01:24 AM

Originally posted by RAMBOris View Post

I have seen amazing progress with this, I actually know people who eat one huge 300g protein meal in one sitting and still see results even though I dont suggest that. Didnt Serge Nubret eat 10lbs of meat before bed every night and yet he built a decent physique. If you give your body 150g of protein per meal it will adapt and utilize 150g, if you give it 50g it will adapt and utilze 50g.

Are you saying a guy as big as Coleman should only eat 40-50g of protein in one sitting? Come on lets be honest here the bigger you are the more protein your body can utilize. Especially when your body is constantly recovering from BALLS TO THE WALLS workouts you can utilize more protein then you think.

Even for someone who is 300 lbs mostly lean body mass, the max amount of protein to maximize muscle protein synthesis is going to be 60-70g per meal absolute max. maybe slightly more if they are elderly, but you don't find many lean 300 lb elderly people

As far as the rest of the stuff, I"m really not going to address it. It's pretty clear you are a guy who doesn't really care much for science so I won't bore you with it.

**palequail** · July 6, 2009, 01:28 AM

Layne - I used roids a few years back. 2003-2004. Got great gains but then went clean due to personal reasons. I'm starting to finally get back into training again seriously. Back then I went from 180-210. I'm back around 180 again, but I'm always lean & a Hard Gainer.

What Supps / Diet Tips do you recommend for gaining 1-2 lbs of muscle per year .....I'm realistic and just want to slowly gain and not get too fat.....

My work outs are always intense, but I think I need some advice on the diet & supp part.

Currently I eat 5-6 Meals per Day. 40-50 Grams of Protein Per Meal & roughly 3500 Cals. Mostly Clean however....

Thoughts? Do you eat Fattier Meats during Gaining time? High GI Carbs? Types of Fats?

**BlakeSelby** · July 6, 2009, 10:04 AM

Liberated Amino Acids/ Soluble and Insoluble fiber

Big Layne,

When I put my foods in something like "FitDay", many times the calories dont match the macros. Is there ever an instance where one wouldnt count calories for such things as (liberated amino acids, soluble, or insoluble fiber?).

Thanks!

-Blake

**RAMBOris** · July 6, 2009, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by str8flexed View Post

Even for someone who is 300 lbs mostly lean body mass, the max amount of protein to maximize muscle protein synthesis is going to be 60-70g per meal absolute max. maybe slightly more if they are elderly, but you don't find many lean 300 lb elderly people

As far as the rest of the stuff, I"m really not going to address it. It's pretty clear you are a guy who doesn't really care much for science so I won't bore you with it.

Can you post some research that proves this?

Also are you saying that no person on earth can utilize 150g of protein in one meal?

**RAMBOris** · July 6, 2009, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by Klaus Urine View Post

Erm. That doesn't sound very likely.

Do a quick search on this. He didnt have time to eat 6 normal meals so he would eat one large 5000 calorie meal before bed. So why is it that he was able to still see results even though as Layne seems to claim you can only utilize 60-70g of protein?

**dpd555** · July 6, 2009, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by RAMBOris View Post

Can you post some research that proves this?

Also are you saying that no person on earth can utilize 150g of protein in one meal?

Define utilize?

Layne is just saying it's not optimal for protein synthesis.

However, I believe there are studies that show 3 protein meals are no better than 6...at least in non-bodybuilders

**the_genetic_freak** · July 6, 2009, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by str8flexed View Post

well it's not really based of my article because my article recommends distributing your carbs heavily around your workout & breakfast rather than spreading them evenly

Do you recommend this same protocol when trying to gain or maintain? And what do you recommend generally on non training days as far as carb consumption

**str8flexed** · July 6, 2009, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by RAMBOris View Post

Do a quick search on this. He didnt have time to eat 6 normal meals so he would eat one large 5000 calorie meal before bed. So why is it that he was able to still see results even though as Layne seems to claim you can only utilize 60-70g of protein?

many people do crazy things. Alot of them achieve results IN SPITE of what they do. Not because what they do is optimal. N=1 is never a good sample size

again, I"m not going to debate with you, you don't really care about science and you are just going to do what you are going to do based on what the biggest guy got results from. That's fine; i'm not going to waste my time arguing with you.

**BlakeSelby** · July 6, 2009, 01:46 PM

Amen to that Layne, hey did u happen to see my question a few posts back? A trainer at my gym was curious about it too.

**RAMBOris** · July 6, 2009, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by str8flexed View Post

many people do crazy things. Alot of them achieve results IN SPITE of what they do. Not because what they do is optimal. N=1 is never a good sample size

again, I"m not going to debate with you, you don't really care about science and you are just going to do what you are going to do based on what the biggest guy got results from. That's fine; i'm not going to waste my time arguing with you.

Im not saying you should eat 1 big protein meal Im just saying the human body can utilize more protein then you think. 60-70g of protein per meal is a good way of doing it, but Im 100% sure that a hardcore bodybuilder can utilize much more. Also I do care about science, if you can post your study that says 60-70g is optimal.

**str8flexed** · July 6, 2009, 04:03 PM

there is no study. It is a point of contention. I would recommend reading my peer review article on the subject

[ame="http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=116188511"]My latest review article just out: Optimal protein intake for athletes - Bodybuilding.com Forums[/ame]

**str8flexed** · July 6, 2009, 04:04 PM

there is no study. It is a point of contention. I would recommend reading my peer review article on the subject

[ame="http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=116188511"]My latest review article just out: Optimal protein intake for athletes - Bodybuilding.com Forums[/ame]

**David1991** · July 6, 2009, 04:44 PM

It seems similar to what Christian Thibaudeau has been talking about with protein pulsing...allowing 4-5 hours between real meals and "pulsing" with amino acid or casien/whey hydrolysate between them

**str8flexed** · July 6, 2009, 06:24 PM

sounds like he's been reading some of my stuff

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