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Layne Norton

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  • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
    well you can't argue with that logic.

    look I'm not going to say jeff doesn't know what he's talking about but no the science does NOT support that. If you do have scientific research to support your contention then I would be very interested to see it and I will gladly retract my statement. Plenty of people get results in spite of what they do, not because what they do is optimal. by your logic we should just go to the biggest most shredded guy on earth and do exactly what he does because obviously that is a flawless plan.

    I'm not saying everything I do is right. But everything I do is formulated around results I've experienced combined with years and years of research into the science of training as well as results and reactions I've seen from hundreds of clients. again, not saying I'm right but at least I do research and test this stuff out. Just saying "oh X person is huge so that works" is not a valid argument.

    Again, if you have scientific research that you would like to show me and debate this properly I am more than happy to do that.

    -Layne
    Actually I would go to kai greene for advice, not coleman, lol
    Last edited by natedogg; August 18, 2009, 12:37 PM.

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    • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
      again, i've never seen any research indicating this. I have respect for DR. Colker but I would like to see his references for this. Maybe there is some info on this, obviously there will be some things I miss but I have never seen any references indicating any of the things he is claiming. Did he list any references for this at the end of his article?
      No, unfortunately he does not give any references in his book, so I guess you kind of have to take his word for it, lol. I have been kicking up my fat intake lately though and have noticed that I have been getting bigger and leaning out slightly, but this could be due to a lot of other factors or it could just be my imagination. It seems like something he has learned from experience over the years rather than something he learned from literature. Does he get on the forums? I would like to ask him...

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      • Originally posted by natedogg View Post
        well... i've been doing max-ot since my last show in may, and I'm very happy with the results. It's so efficient and to me it makes the most sense. Everything i've learned in college for my degree of exercise science relates to the principals of max-ot. There are so many programs that work, The people who came up with max-ot point that out, but they emphasize how max-ot is the most efficient . They show you all of the science and research that backs it up. I trained many different ways to and it works but nothing compared to max-ot. Jeff Willet and Skip la cour are the main examples of what max-ot is all about, especially for the drug free athlete. And no my logic is not going to the biggest, most shredded guy on earth, if that's the case I would go to Ronnie Coleman and do what he does, not the ronnie coleman now, but maybe the ronnie of 2003, lol
        you did not address my questions. I have read about Max-OT. I understand the program. But the fact remains that it only takes advantage of a few methods to induce hypertrophy. There are many many many more ways to do it that allow greater optimization of protein synthesis, greater frequency, without overtaxing your CNS. Not saying it's a bad program, but again, I just don't really think your logic is well... logical. I'm glad you are getting results from it. Never said you couldn't get results from it. I think you need to go back and re-read some of this thread and check out some of my videos regarding my training philosophies. I'm not trying to sound arrogant, but really the logic here is pretty bad. You can make any routine make 'sense'. Hell HIT makes 'sense' but it doesn't hold up scientifically. Are their scientific studies that support Max-OT? sure. Can you make gains on Max-OT? Sure. Do I believe it is a routine you can use long term for optimal gains? no
        BioLayne LLC
        PhD, Nutritional Sciences
        Scivation Athlete
        MD Columnist
        Website

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        • Originally posted by rlecuyer View Post
          No, unfortunately he does not give any references in his book, so I guess you kind of have to take his word for it, lol. I have been kicking up my fat intake lately though and have noticed that I have been getting bigger and leaning out slightly, but this could be due to a lot of other factors or it could just be my imagination. It seems like something he has learned from experience over the years rather than something he learned from literature. Does he get on the forums? I would like to ask him...
          i'm not sure. but if you ask him please don't say "layne said you are wrong" blah blah blah

          i'd rather not have angry emails because someone butchered what I said. I get tired of that stuff happening lol
          BioLayne LLC
          PhD, Nutritional Sciences
          Scivation Athlete
          MD Columnist
          Website

          Comment


          • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
            you did not address my questions. I have read about Max-OT. I understand the program. But the fact remains that it only takes advantage of a few methods to induce hypertrophy. There are many many many more ways to do it that allow greater optimization of protein synthesis, greater frequency, without overtaxing your CNS. Not saying it's a bad program, but again, I just don't really think your logic is well... logical. I'm glad you are getting results from it. Never said you couldn't get results from it. I think you need to go back and re-read some of this thread and check out some of my videos regarding my training philosophies. I'm not trying to sound arrogant, but really the logic here is pretty bad. You can make any routine make 'sense'. Hell HIT makes 'sense' but it doesn't hold up scientifically. Are their scientific studies that support Max-OT? sure. Can you make gains on Max-OT? Sure. Do I believe it is a routine you can use long term for optimal gains? no
            well i could go on and on.. but that won't get anywhere so i'm just gonna say "agree to disagree"

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            • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
              Hell HIT makes 'sense' but it doesn't hold up scientifically.
              I'm guessing you're not including DC in that right?

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              • I think people are looking at different programs too acutely...if you've always trained low volume, high intensity, low frequency, and have gotten very strong from it, and then stagnated....Max OT won't do shit for you...

                if you've been doing high volume, low intensity, high frequency work and hit a stall Max OT will give you great gains...

                if you are plateaued, the best program is the one you are not doing...

                periodization people, bodybuilders in general just don't get this aspect of resistance training it seems...
                Eric Helms Controlled Labs Athlete NASM CPT & PES
                http://www.3dmusclejourney.com/

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                • Originally posted by Quelly View Post
                  I think people are looking at different programs too acutely...if you've always trained low volume, high intensity, low frequency, and have gotten very strong from it, and then stagnated....Max OT won't do shit for you...

                  if you've been doing high volume, low intensity, high frequency work and hit a stall Max OT will give you great gains...

                  if you are plateaued, the best program is the one you are not doing...

                  periodization people, bodybuilders in general just don't get this aspect of resistance training it seems...
                  Eric gets it
                  BioLayne LLC
                  PhD, Nutritional Sciences
                  Scivation Athlete
                  MD Columnist
                  Website

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
                    Eric gets it
                    <---loves getting gold stars from Layne
                    Eric Helms Controlled Labs Athlete NASM CPT & PES
                    http://www.3dmusclejourney.com/

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
                      i'm not sure. but if you ask him please don't say "layne said you are wrong" blah blah blah

                      i'd rather not have angry emails because someone butchered what I said. I get tired of that stuff happening lol
                      That's right I am going to tell Dr. Colker on you, Layne.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Quelly View Post
                        periodization people, bodybuilders in general just don't get this aspect of resistance training it seems...

                        I was a hostage of all this as well untill my formal course work in strength and conditioning started. Started to see very clearly how its important for all athletes, bodybuilders included not to stay with one format or modality of training for too long. When it stops working or fails to produce adequete gains in strength or size its time to adjust or switch out to another format or stimulus (power, strength, hypertrophy etc)

                        Is it any wonder why you get freshman guys and gals going into college with decent numbers and times only to leave college with near school records and /or numbers that everyone raves about at combines and other similar testing/performance assesments? Maybe that periodization thing is worth a look huh?

                        Now my passion happens to fall in what forms of periodization work best for what populations/level of athlete. Thats where the stuff gets fun!
                        MS - Human Sport Performance
                        NSCA - CPT, CSCS

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                        • Layne do you still recommend ALA 600-1200mg does it worth the $$?
                          http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne25.htm

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                          • Dear Layne,

                            In the No Bull section there is a running debate on Natural vs. Steroids and if one is superior to the other. WHile most say they are equal, one person persists on insulting natties, in fact calling natties "an insult to bodybuilding" and glorifies steroids as the one true path. Could you read the debate in question and make a rebuttal to this roided up creep that natural is in fact just one path to bodybuilding greatness?
                            I reject your reality and substitute my own.

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                            • lol. layne doesn't need to bring himself to that debate. it's childish
                              The world's best spoon's player

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                              • Originally posted by daciz2 View Post
                                lol. layne doesn't need to bring himself to that debate. it's childish
                                True, but Id like to hear his view on Natty vs Steroid Bodybuilders and how one is not superior to the other, just different.
                                I reject your reality and substitute my own.

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