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Layne Norton

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  • Originally posted by rlecuyer View Post

    Hey, Layne. I posted this last week. Not sure if you saw it...

    I recently heard that because insulin spikes lead to secretion of somatostatin (which blocks production of Growth Hormone), a high carbohydrate meal should not be consumed immediately after a workout if your main goal is fat loss. What do you think about this? My thinking is that this is only one piece of the puzzle. If you do something like HIIT your body's main fuel is going to be carbohydrates (assuming you are doing anerobic intervals), so that is what needs to be replenished. If there is no sugar readily available then the body will have to go to amino acids to create glucose, sacrificing muscle, right? So couldn't this in the long term have a negative effect on fat loss and training in general?
    sorry i missed it.

    A few points

    1) there is no evidence that GH in the physiological range is anabolic in adults

    2) the endpoint for anabolism is protein synthesis. if you find protein synthesis is elevated, then you are anabolic (assuming degradation is unaffected). If you don't eat post workout, protein synthesis stays depressed. It does not become elevated until you eat, and carbs augment the protein synthesis response to amino acids. So that punches a huge hole in that ridiculous argument.

    This is an example of people missing the Forest through the trees I'm afraid.
    BioLayne LLC
    PhD, Nutritional Sciences
    Scivation Athlete
    MD Columnist
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    • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
      the amount recommended in the article. carbs at night don't make you magically store fat like some people would have you believe
      BAck loading ftw. Train at 5 having skipped breakfast and keeping carbs at zero pre workout; get a boat load of carbs between 7 and bedtime.
      Training Log. I train like a manbearpig. http://forums.musculardevelopment.co...t=#post2381061

      Comment


      • you are training fasted?
        BioLayne LLC
        PhD, Nutritional Sciences
        Scivation Athlete
        MD Columnist
        Website

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        • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
          you are training fasted?
          No my glycogen stores should be full from the night before, so strength is still up. I sit down all day pre training anyway.

          I understand that insulin sensitivity is supposed to dwindle in fat cells and muscle in the evening. That being said resistance training allows for enhanced glucose uptake via non-insulin-mediated translocation of glut-4 receptors .

          So if you manipulate your diet correctly you can burn fat efficiently throughout the day with minimum effort. This is my understanding of it anyway, that i can replenish glycogen stores at night time when my muscles have a high affinity for glucose absorption. I get in 400 gr carbs + in the space of 3 hours, as carbs and calories are needed for growth.

          In light of your studies and thoughts on the matter i use leucine to spare muscle tissue during the day...it is a positive signaler akin to insulin when it comes to protein synthesis. I use creatine for a new reason now too. There is a possibility it inhibits myostatin ( a negative signaler) to some degree.

          I dont think im using the right protein blends ( e.g casein hydrolysate/whey isolate blend) to help keep FAA levels high during the day, but i use leucine during the day as mentioned to spare tissue and whey hydrolysate/isolate blend post workout with 100-120 gr glucose.


          Diet:

          wake up..sometimes skip breakfast and have coffee instead (2 double espressos) + vitamins + water and maybe some peanut butter.

          1) 2 hours later...whey + 3 whole eggs
          2) 3 whole eggs + whey
          3) 200 gr chicken + nuts
          4) chicken + nuts
          5) whey hydro/isolate mix + glucose 120 gr
          6) rice/pitta bread/chicken
          7) whey + oats + pitta bread toast.
          Training Log. I train like a manbearpig. http://forums.musculardevelopment.co...t=#post2381061

          Comment


          • Hmm, that is interesting. So, you are saying that even when GH is elevated above baseline, it still may not be enough to have any anabolic effect? The same for fat loss?

            That makes a lot of sense with the protein synthesis and I figured it must have just been a case of only seeing one part of it, like you said. Especially because I don't really see HIIT on a bike having too much of an effect on acute GH elevation, which is what this guy was suggesting...

            Thanks for the response, Layne! And congratulations on the great season.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by CATABOLIC1 View Post
              No my glycogen stores should be full from the night before, so strength is still up. I sit down all day pre training anyway.

              I understand that insulin sensitivity is supposed to dwindle in fat cells and muscle in the evening. That being said resistance training allows for enhanced glucose uptake via non-insulin-mediated translocation of glut-4 receptors .

              So if you manipulate your diet correctly you can burn fat efficiently throughout the day with minimum effort. This is my understanding of it anyway, that i can replenish glycogen stores at night time when my muscles have a high affinity for glucose absorption. I get in 400 gr carbs + in the space of 3 hours, as carbs and calories are needed for growth.

              In light of your studies and thoughts on the matter i use leucine to spare muscle tissue during the day...it is a positive signaler akin to insulin when it comes to protein synthesis. I use creatine for a new reason now too. There is a possibility it inhibits myostatin ( a negative signaler) to some degree.

              I dont think im using the right protein blends ( e.g casein hydrolysate/whey isolate blend) to help keep FAA levels high during the day, but i use leucine during the day as mentioned to spare tissue and whey hydrolysate/isolate blend post workout with 100-120 gr glucose.


              Diet:

              wake up..sometimes skip breakfast and have coffee instead (2 double espressos) + vitamins + water and maybe some peanut butter.

              1) 2 hours later...whey + 3 whole eggs
              2) 3 whole eggs + whey
              3) 200 gr chicken + nuts
              4) chicken + nuts
              5) whey hydro/isolate mix + glucose 120 gr
              6) rice/pitta bread/chicken
              7) whey + oats + pitta bread toast.
              look i think that people who avoid carbs at night because 'they make you store fat' are full of it, but I also think the logic in this approach is equally skewed
              BioLayne LLC
              PhD, Nutritional Sciences
              Scivation Athlete
              MD Columnist
              Website

              Comment


              • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
                look i think that people who avoid carbs at night because 'they make you store fat' are full of it, but I also think the logic in this approach is equally skewed
                I am intrigued by the idea of using muscle contraction during training to increase Glut-4 transporter count. This definitely happens:

                https://www.tcd.ie/Biochemistry/loca...4Bioessays.pdf

                So why not time your carbs when insulin sensitivity is at its lowest point in both tissues?

                I am convinced you can control glucose disposal into the muscle tissue without the use of GDA's by timing your training and eating like this.
                That being said I never got around to buying a glucometer so I still dont actually know if this idea is valid in practice.

                All I know is Ive been eating this way since summer time and my lifts have sky rocketed regardless, and im set to do well in my first powerlifting competition on Feb 12th.

                Does vanadyl sulfate actually work for non diabetics? Every review ive read points to its success in diabetic peoples alone.
                Training Log. I train like a manbearpig. http://forums.musculardevelopment.co...t=#post2381061

                Comment


                • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
                  look i think that people who avoid carbs at night because 'they make you store fat' are full of it, but I also think the logic in this approach is equally skewed
                  Do you think taking in say 20-30 grams BCAA and 30 grams of dextrose right before (20 minutes or so) a workout is sufficient? Or do you really have to get in a full meal, say an hour or so before?

                  Comment


                  • 20-30g BCAA in a sitting is ridiculous overkill
                    BioLayne LLC
                    PhD, Nutritional Sciences
                    Scivation Athlete
                    MD Columnist
                    Website

                    Comment


                    • .

                      Originally posted by CATABOLIC1 View Post
                      I am intrigued by the idea of using muscle contraction during training to increase Glut-4 transporter count. This definitely happens:

                      https://www.tcd.ie/Biochemistry/loca...4Bioessays.pdf

                      So why not time your carbs when insulin sensitivity is at its lowest point in both tissues?

                      I am convinced you can control glucose disposal into the muscle tissue without the use of GDA's by timing your training and eating like this.
                      That being said I never got around to buying a glucometer so I still dont actually know if this idea is valid in practice.

                      All I know is Ive been eating this way since summer time and my lifts have sky rocketed regardless, and im set to do well in my first powerlifting competition on Feb 12th.

                      Does vanadyl sulfate actually work for non diabetics? Every review ive read points to its success in diabetic peoples alone.
                      no I agree with that. but I don't agree with 0 carbs before training

                      vanadyl sulfate only increases basal glucose uptake, not insulin stimulated glucose uptake which is why I do not understand why people recommend it as a insulin sensitizer. something like lipoic acid is far better since it positively affects insulin stimulated glucose uptake.
                      BioLayne LLC
                      PhD, Nutritional Sciences
                      Scivation Athlete
                      MD Columnist
                      Website

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
                        20-30g BCAA in a sitting is ridiculous overkill
                        OK, thanks.

                        So how about 10-14 grams BCAA, 30 grams of dextrose, 20-30 minutes pre-workout in place of meal 1?

                        Would that work?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
                          .


                          no I agree with that. but I don't agree with 0 carbs before training

                          vanadyl sulfate only increases basal glucose uptake, not insulin stimulated glucose uptake which is why I do not understand why people recommend it as a insulin sensitizer. something like lipoic acid is far better since it positively affects insulin stimulated glucose uptake.
                          Science is slowly but surely teaching me not to act like a sheep and be more subjective.

                          So would vanadyl be good for controlling gluconeogenesis in diabetics along with metformin? I heard it supports the insulin receptor configuration... maybe youd explain exactly how it works or else ill just check it on scifinder.

                          Well if my session is going to be serious i will generally get a bloat going!!! (before squatting/deadlifting) so im actually flexible enough with the diet!
                          Training Log. I train like a manbearpig. http://forums.musculardevelopment.co...t=#post2381061

                          Comment


                          • why are you wanting to stop gluconeogenesis?
                            BioLayne LLC
                            PhD, Nutritional Sciences
                            Scivation Athlete
                            MD Columnist
                            Website

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by str8flexed View Post
                              why are you wanting to stop gluconeogenesis?
                              i dont. You mentioned something about basal metabolism of glucose. I think i misunderstood "basal"
                              Training Log. I train like a manbearpig. http://forums.musculardevelopment.co...t=#post2381061

                              Comment


                              • basal=in abscess of increased insulin
                                BioLayne LLC
                                PhD, Nutritional Sciences
                                Scivation Athlete
                                MD Columnist
                                Website

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