Layne Norton

[Klaus Urine]

Do you listen to Pro Bodybuilding Weekly Layne? I'm listening to the interview with Milos at the moment and some of his ideas sound really bogus...

If you heard it, what do you think about his theories?

[str8flexed]

Layne I recently increased my pre and post workout carbs (vitargo) from 35g to 50g each (about a week ago). My last few workouts I have felt very sluggish. Normally I'm supercharged. Is it possible that the increase is the culprit? I currently weight 181lb.

not sure, cut it back to 30 and see if you get your energy back.

[str8flexed]

Do you listen to Pro Bodybuilding Weekly Layne? I'm listening to the interview with Milos at the moment and some of his ideas sound really bogus...

If you heard it, what do you think about his theories?

i'm afraid not. can you summarize & i'll give my thoughts.

thanks bro

[Klaus Urine]

i'm afraid not. can you summarize & i'll give my thoughts.

thanks bro

The part I'm talking about is this: he postulates that the most anabolic time of day is actually when you're working out (because of the increased blood flow pushing nutrients into the muscles). Further to this, he says that if you don't have a special formulation providing exact amounts of essential amino acids (he was pushing his own shit) then the increased blood flow is useless. There was further rhetoric about essential amino acids being far superior to whole food for muscle building.

There was possibly other stuff I can't think of now...

A lot of what he said sounded like outrageous marketing rubbish and/or just wacky uneducated theories. Thinking man's bodybuilder? Yeah, he thinks but it seems like he's coming from a very pseudo-scientific place (not to bash him specifically).

[GEARD UP]

hey man,
do ytou know if there is anyother way to watch your video and the olympia videos on bb.com? i have to sit there and watch it filter forever....just curious

adam

[str8flexed]

The part I'm talking about is this: he postulates that the most anabolic time of day is actually when you're working out (because of the increased blood flow pushing nutrients into the muscles). Further to this, he says that if you don't have a special formulation providing exact amounts of essential amino acids (he was pushing his own shit) then the increased blood flow is useless. There was further rhetoric about essential amino acids being far superior to whole food for muscle building.

There was possibly other stuff I can't think of now...

A lot of what he said sounded like outrageous marketing rubbish and/or just wacky uneducated theories. Thinking man's bodybuilder? Yeah, he thinks but it seems like he's coming from a very pseudo-scientific place (not to bash him specifically).

I think BCAA & EAA can be better in various situations. There is no reason to use both though, overkill. The blood flow can be helpful but I don't think it makes it that much more anabolic than post workout where blood flow is also elevated. I would disagree with most things he said, but I wouldn't say that you need that exact breakdown or it's 'useless'

[Klaus Urine]

I think BCAA & EAA can be better in various situations. There is no reason to use both though, overkill. The blood flow can be helpful but I don't think it makes it that much more anabolic than post workout where blood flow is also elevated. I would disagree with most things he said, but I wouldn't say that you need that exact breakdown or it's 'useless'

Pretty much what I thought dude (though on my part a little more instinctive than scientific). Another case of gym science I think. I'm not sure why he's touted as being such an amazing thinker... I'm sure his methods work for the most part, just probably not for the reasons that he thinks!

However some of his training methods are interesting. He's a big proponent of giant sets (like about 4 different movements with no rest between). Probably good for a change (like all training methods).

Gotta say Layne, I've upped my training volume quite significantly recently after hearing your reasoning on it and I'm really liking the way it feels. I'm getting wicked results in the gym (though that's due in no small part to the fact I just finished a diet too - a very anabolic time).

[mikey8888]

POST WORKOUT CARBS

Hi Layne

When are very low carbs or ketosis, what are your thoughts on replacing post workout carbohydrates with leucine, glycine and glutamine. It was mentioned by Christian Thibaudeau, who I have huge respect for, in one of his most recent articles.

"Leucine can spike insulin almost as well as carbs but it doesn't take you out of ketosis or prevent you from being in a fat-adapted state. Glutamine and glycine are two amino acids that have been shown to restore muscle glycogen almost as well as carbs. The 35-55g of combined G&G will almost have the same effect on glycogen replenishment as a similar dose of carbs".

Thank you for your time Layne

Mike

[str8flexed]

Pretty much what I thought dude (though on my part a little more instinctive than scientific). Another case of gym science I think. I'm not sure why he's touted as being such an amazing thinker... I'm sure his methods work for the most part, just probably not for the reasons that he thinks!

However some of his training methods are interesting. He's a big proponent of giant sets (like about 4 different movements with no rest between). Probably good for a change (like all training methods).

Gotta say Layne, I've upped my training volume quite significantly recently after hearing your reasoning on it and I'm really liking the way it feels. I'm getting wicked results in the gym (though that's due in no small part to the fact I just finished a diet too - a very anabolic time).

i'm glad that you are getting results from it. This is one case where I like saying "told ya so"

[str8flexed]

Hi Layne

When are very low carbs or ketosis, what are your thoughts on replacing post workout carbohydrates with leucine, glycine and glutamine. It was mentioned by Christian Thibaudeau, who I have huge respect for, in one of his most recent articles.

"Leucine can spike insulin almost as well as carbs but it doesn't take you out of ketosis or prevent you from being in a fat-adapted state. Glutamine and glycine are two amino acids that have been shown to restore muscle glycogen almost as well as carbs. The 35-55g of combined G&G will almost have the same effect on glycogen replenishment as a similar dose of carbs".

Thank you for your time Layne

Mike

that is a big stretch to say that leucine increases insulin same as carbs. Absolutely not. The insulin spike is significant but not near as much as an equal carb dose. Additionally, carbohydrate induced insulin response is biphasic, with the stored insulin in the pancreas being released immediately and sometime after that, insulin is produced by the pancreas and keeps being produced until the glucose clears. This secondary release of insulin is actually the comparatively larger release. Amino acids like Leucine only cause the initial release of stored insulin, but there is no biphasic response, no sustained release. So in all actuality, insulin release in response to leucine is very different from carbohydrate. As far as glutamine & glycine restoring glycogen; they can through gluconeogenesis... but not as well as carbohydrate. Carbohydrates from diet can get into the bloodstream at a rate of about 50g/hour I believe whereas the maxed out rate of gluconeogenesis is about 5g/hour. So no... they don't restore glycogen as fast.

-Layne

[tjoe]

Pretty much what I thought dude (though on my part a little more instinctive than scientific). Another case of gym science I think. I'm not sure why he's touted as being such an amazing thinker... I'm sure his methods work for the most part, just probably not for the reasons that he thinks!

On the other hand... isn't this how we got to where we are? Pretty much everyone will agree that the scientific community is years behind the BBing community. We do what works cause we found out it works. Science has to "prove" it works with repeatable results (which takes a long @ss time).

I'm just trying to look at the other side of the coin. I liked a lot of what he said and it did seem to make some pretty good sense.

[JDub]

Layne,

Are you still using a during workout shake of dextrose and BCAAs?

[str8flexed]

On the other hand... isn't this how we got to where we are? Pretty much everyone will agree that the scientific community is years behind the BBing community. We do what works cause we found out it works. Science has to "prove" it works with repeatable results (which takes a long @ss time).

I'm just trying to look at the other side of the coin. I liked a lot of what he said and it did seem to make some pretty good sense.

I agree that bodybuilding tends to be ahead of the science in terms of results & anecdotal things; however, you need both to say something for sure works. If you've got the science to back up something that also have massive amounts of anecdotal evidence (ie creatine) then you've got a winner. that said... alot of nutritional & training theory out there right now is absolute dog poo poo

[str8flexed]

Layne,

Are you still using a during workout shake of dextrose and BCAAs?

na, I usually just do a post workout shake w/ BCAAs & dex/waxymaize

[tjoe]

I agree that bodybuilding tends to be ahead of the science in terms of results & anecdotal things; however, you need both to say something for sure works. If you've got the science to back up something that also have massive amounts of anecdotal evidence (ie creatine) then you've got a winner. that said... alot of nutritional & training theory out there right now is absolute dog poo poo

True, but I think the anecdotal evidence comes way before the scientific (at least in our game). Like back in Arnolds day and all the pro they were consuming. That is still being debated 30+ years later by the science community! Perhaps Milos is now, where Arnold was then. And regarding your last post about just having the post workout shake: Back when you were doing a "during" concoction, I'm SURE you had enough evidence to convinve yourself that it was optimal at that time.