Layne Norton

[Toddbz]

not sure, cut it back to 30 and see if you get your energy back.

Will do. Thanks
I'm my own case study

[Toddbz]

True, but I think the anecdotal evidence comes way before the scientific (at least in our game). Like back in Arnolds day and all the pro they were consuming. That is still being debated 30+ years later by the science community! Perhaps Milos is now, where Arnold was then. And regarding your last post about just having the post workout shake: Back when you were doing a "during" concoction, I'm SURE you had enough evidence to convinve yourself that it was optimal at that time.

Wouldn't part of that be that BB's in general are not affraid to go outside the box in terms of nutrition or exercise for that matter? Look at some of the most popular 'craze' diets now. They are mostly based on or identical to principles that the bodybuilding community has been using for years.
With science it's not just a quick 'let's see what happens' option. As Layne can attest, a through analysis can take some time to run through all the variables that can exsist or arise. Especially when it comes to well being. No scientist wants to be the cause of someones misfortune because they didn't cross their T's and dot their I's.
It (when done correctly) is a harmonious thing.
My 2 cents

[JDub]

During Workout Dex/ BCAA

na, I usually just do a post workout shake w/ BCAAs & dex/waxymaize

At one point you were, correct? Any particular reason you stopped?

[Heffalum]

Hey Layne I was wondering how well your body uses red meat, I know chicken is more Bio - avalibil, but I cant stand it. My butcher sells the steroid-hormone free beef. I eat 1 to 2 pounds of lean ground beef a day it seems to be working great. I was just wondering is my body actually able to use the protein effectively.

[str8flexed]

At one point you were, correct? Any particular reason you stopped?

yes I was. just found that if my preworkout & post workout nutrition were on point I really didn't need it

[str8flexed]

i'm not sure if chicken is more bioavailable. I think they are both about the same

[Klaus Urine]

On the other hand... isn't this how we got to where we are? Pretty much everyone will agree that the scientific community is years behind the BBing community. We do what works cause we found out it works. Science has to "prove" it works with repeatable results (which takes a long @ss time).

I'm just trying to look at the other side of the coin. I liked a lot of what he said and it did seem to make some pretty good sense.

Absolutely that's how we got where we are. As I said, I think his techniques would work but not for the reasons that he says. He gets the results but when it comes to explaining some of it, I think he gets a little mixed up.

Also, I can't work out whether he really believes he has a magic formula for his shake (if so he loses credibility in my eyes - how can their be one formula for everyone?) or whether he's just trying to make a buck. Either way kind of rankles.

[Heffalum]

i'm not sure if chicken is more bioavailable. I think they are both about the same

Thanks Layne, hey I heard that they are going to stop making substance wpi. Is there any truth to this, if so I will stock up before the stores run out.

[str8flexed]

yea they stopped making it

[fast-twitch]

well i tried daves diet for about almost 2 weeks , i couldn't go on any longer , i felt like shit , my workouts were shit , i felt nasues everyday ( even in ketosis ) all the fat and oils made me feel sick to my stomach and wanting to vomit , i lost about 20 pounds in thoose 2 weeks and feel like most was water/muscle , started to look smooth instead of ripped not to mention deflated also had increased acne , going back to the my old way of doing it, which is basically like laynes article on pre-contest dieting, i feel the diet is more for bodybuilders who are on anabolics and for people who wanna lose weight and don't care about muscle. never again will i do this type of diet.

[Dopetastic]

hey layne ive seen you recommend the use of cissus. how much do you recommend and when etc?

[tjoe]

well i tried daves diet for about almost 2 weeks , i couldn't go on any longer , i felt like shit , my workouts were shit , i felt nasues everyday ( even in ketosis ) all the fat and oils made me feel sick to my stomach and wanting to vomit , i lost about 20 pounds in thoose 2 weeks and feel like most was water/muscle , started to look smooth instead of ripped not to mention deflated also had increased acne , going back to the my old way of doing it, which is basically like laynes article on pre-contest dieting, i feel the diet is more for bodybuilders who are on anabolics and for people who wanna lose weight and don't care about muscle. never again will i do this type of diet.

Bummer, but it's not for everyone. Being on Daves diet myself I have to interject on a few points however. You did lose a lot of water, no doubt. However if you lost 20lbs. of water and muscle you definately did something wrong (as it is designed to KEEP muscle). I highly doubt the increased acne was from the diet either, Layne may know better on that point but I can't see how healthy fats and pro would cause that.

As for the last statement "diet is more for bodybuilders who are on anabolics and for people who wanna lose weight and don't care about muscle." That dosen't even make any sense! You just combined two opposite ends of the spectrum together. Juicers and people who don't care about muscle. And finally 2 weeks is not going to be enough time for the desired result. If you've read through Daves Q&A you would know that you may smooth out in the beginning but will fill back out with the right fats. I am 100% sure you were NOT doing something right. However, if what you were doing before was working... why did you switch???

[str8flexed]

hey layne ive seen you recommend the use of cissus. how much do you recommend and when etc?

depends upon how potent the extract is

[Dopetastic]

depends upon how potent the extract is

i was thinkking about picking up some powder from tp.com. you know anything about their stuff?

[fast-twitch]

Bummer, but it's not for everyone. Being on Daves diet myself I have to interject on a few points however. You did lose a lot of water, no doubt. However if you lost 20lbs. of water and muscle you definately did something wrong (as it is designed to KEEP muscle). I highly doubt the increased acne was from the diet either, Layne may know better on that point but I can't see how healthy fats and pro would cause that.

As for the last statement "diet is more for bodybuilders who are on anabolics and for people who wanna lose weight and don't care about muscle." That dosen't even make any sense! You just combined two opposite ends of the spectrum together. Juicers and people who don't care about muscle. And finally 2 weeks is not going to be enough time for the desired result. If you've read through Daves Q&A you would know that you may smooth out in the beginning but will fill back out with the right fats. I am 100% sure you were NOT doing something right. However, if what you were doing before was working... why did you switch???

when i said bbers with anabolics meaning they have help from substances to help perserve there muscle mass , and the general population because there not bodybuilders they just like to look at the scale , i did the diet because dave made it seem like it was the all mighty true fatloss diet from reading his fourm, so i figure i give it a go, didn't work as well as planed but hey not everyones the same , and i apoligize for the generalization for people on the diet , maybe i was cranky from not having any carbs , i apoligize