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Who is the biggest natural bodybuilder? (Why are they small bitches?)

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  • Originally posted by Ron Harris View Post
    I think Layne sets an excellent example of what can be achieved with average genetics, no drugs, just a tenacious attitude, brains, and a powerful work ethic.
    Thanks Ron! If that's all I'd ever end up being known for, I think I'd be just fine with that
    BioLayne LLC
    PhD, Nutritional Sciences
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    • Originally posted by ForemanRules View Post
      Yes, many.
      Can you name any...I mean, if they are well known enough to recognize.
      CEO BBuilt International www.broserbuilt.com
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      • Gotta give credit where credit is due!
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        FB: Ron Harris IG: RonHarrisMuscle Author "EvilX10: 10 Tales of Extreme Darkness"

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        • Originally posted by bjizzle06 View Post
          You don't want to do research on him, but you want to ask him a dumb question that he's answered ad nauseum elsewhere.

          He is not a lifetime natural, and never claimed to be. But obviously in your book there is no such thing except a lifetime natural -- most natural bodybuilding organizations differ with you on that definition.
          You are right, John does not claim to be lifetime natural. And if he did a couple of cycles in his 20 years of training, he can still consider himself natural (if not life-time). He never competed on drugs and also held natural status long enough to be in line with the regulations of his competing organization. Whatever gains he may have made from a couple of cycles certainly would not solidify on his physique, and he would look exactly the same today whether he had done it or not.
          CEO BBuilt International www.broserbuilt.com
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          PRO BODYBUILDER
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          • I find it interesting how a lot of the guys on AAS who sneer at natural bb's as 'little bitches' are delusional about how big they really are. I can't tell you how many times over the years I have seen a 250-pound guy holding 50 pounds of fat and water be horrified to see how small he really is once he actually diets down and gets in shape.
            Muscular Development Online Editor
            FB: Ron Harris IG: RonHarrisMuscle Author "EvilX10: 10 Tales of Extreme Darkness"

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            • Originally posted by Ron Harris View Post
              I find it interesting how a lot of the guys on AAS who sneer at natural bb's as 'little bitches' are delusional about how big they really are. I can't tell you how many times over the years I have seen a 250-pound guy holding 50 pounds of fat and water be horrified to see how small he really is once he actually diets down and gets in shape.
              Hence the lifetime super bulkers. Scared to stand on stage because they have to realize they are only 195lbs lean.


              Oh the humanity... I am sub 200lbs
              Are you gonna live your life, or are you biding time till you die?

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              • Originally posted by bodyfx2 View Post
                You are right, John does not claim to be lifetime natural. And if he did a couple of cycles in his 20 years of training, he can still consider himself natural (if not life-time). He never competed on drugs and also held natural status long enough to be in line with the regulations of his competing organization. Whatever gains he may have made from a couple of cycles certainly would not solidify on his physique, and he would look exactly the same today whether he had done it or not.
                Absolute agreement, and it's sad that he's not getting the proper respect from some uninformed individuals in this thread.

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                • michael lockett

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                  • [quote=bjizzle06;1406663]You don't want to do research on him, but you want to ask him a dumb question that he's answered ad nauseum elsewhere.

                    He is not a lifetime natural, and never claimed to be. But obviously in your book there is no such thing except a lifetime natural -- most natural bodybuilding organizations differ with you on that definition.[/quote]
                    Yes we know this! what a stupid post!
                    RIP Hagen (blocked cock), RIP Elf (pancreas), RIP BigBenj (murder), RIP GFR (natural causes)

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                    • Originally posted by bodyfx2 View Post
                      You are right, John does not claim to be lifetime natural. And if he did a couple of cycles in his 20 years of training, he can still consider himself natural (if not life-time). He never competed on drugs and also held natural status long enough to be in line with the regulations of his competing organization. Whatever gains he may have made from a couple of cycles certainly would not solidify on his physique, and he would look exactly the same today whether he had done it or not.
                      You obviously are natural if you believe that! you do have knowledge on training and diet but not steroids!
                      RIP Hagen (blocked cock), RIP Elf (pancreas), RIP BigBenj (murder), RIP GFR (natural causes)

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                      • Originally posted by bjizzle06 View Post
                        Absolute agreement, and it's sad that he's not getting the proper respect from some uninformed individuals in this thread.
                        I respect him! I was just asking if he was natural or not! Others answered for him saying hes not. If anyone is disrespecting him, it is the people answering for him not me.
                        RIP Hagen (blocked cock), RIP Elf (pancreas), RIP BigBenj (murder), RIP GFR (natural causes)

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                        • Originally posted by Frederick View Post
                          I respect him! I was just asking if he was natural or not! Others answered for him saying hes not. If anyone is disrespecting him, it is the people answering for him not me.
                          I guess calling him a liar and marginalizing his accomplishments in the natural bodybuilding world is not disrespectful in your book. Kinda like training without gear for 15+ years is still not natural, right? You came into this thread talking to the man like he was some phony clown with a bodyspace page claiming to be natural with DD gyno tits. Please educate yourself.

                          Taken from another site :

                          The short answer is, yes, I did use steroids about 20 years ago when I was in my early twenties but I used them only in preparation for the competitions I was entering so that was for 12 weeks once a year. I DID NOT use them to build my physique, only to hold onto muscle and keep my strength up when I was dieting.

                          My original goal when I started training at 14 years old was to win the Mr. Universe and be in the magazines like the guys I read about in Muscle Builder Magazine. I didn't know anything about steroids until I read an interview with Arnold in a 1978 issue of Muscle Builder magazine. In that issue, Arnold admitted that he used steroids in preparation for a contest and that all of the top bodybuilders competing in the Mr. America, Mr. Universe and Mr. Olympia used them. However, Arnold said that the drugs were only being used as a "finishing touch" and that they only accounted for a 5-10% improvement in the physique but, without that 5-10% extra improvement, you would risk losing the contest.

                          Arnold also advised young bodybuilders to not use the drugs to build their physiques because, if they did, they would have a drug physique, a body built with the use of steroids. He said young guys (like myself) would be much better off building their bodies through hard training and good nutrition. This would create a body built through hard work and not on drugs (a temporary condition). Since Arnold was my idol, I took his words to heart and made the decision to build my body through hard training and good nutrition.

                          I started competing in the teenage bodybuilding competitions at 16 years old and it didn't take long for me to realize that many of the competitors I was up against were not natural. At first, I could not believe this because Arnold said that only the top national level competitors were using steroids but here I could see that even the teenage bodybuilders were taking them.

                          You have to understand that the situation in the 1970's and 1980's was much different than it is today. First of all, steroids were not a federal offense, only a misdemeanor IF you got caught taking them without a doctor's prescription. Most of the general public and the media was not aware of steroids and it was never talked about in the sports pages or on television like it is today. There was a doctor only a few blocks from the gym I trained at who would readily prescribe steroids to anyone who wanted them, whether for a competition or just to get bigger.

                          My training partner at the time was about 5-6 years older than me and he told me he could get some steroids for me to take so I would definitely win my next teenage competition. I have to admit that it was very tempting because I was getting tired of getting beat by bodybuilders who had an unfair advantage. Even at that age, bodybuilding was my life and it was extremely hard to go into a contest and lose. I finally decided that I wanted to win Mr. America a lot more than I wanted to be Teenage Mr. America. I was going to do as Arnold said and just wait to build my physique naturally, no matter how long it took. I continued to compete naturally in all of the teenage shows I did and usually got my butt kicked. When I competed in the 1982 Teenage Mr. America, I really felt out of place. Although I took 5th place, it was a distant fifth because those guys who placed ahead of me looked unbelievable. David Hawk won my class and I swear he looked as good that night as he did when he won the NPC USA three years later and got his pro card.

                          When I reached my 20th birthday, I decided to take a year off of competition in order to bulk up and get as big as possible. I was 205 pounds about six months after my last teenage show and I got up to 230 pounds at 21 years old. Since I started off at 135 pounds when I began training at 14 years old, that was almost 100 pounds heavier in 7 years.

                          When I began competing in the open division competitions like the NPC Illinois State Championships and NPC Mid-America, I started using the drugs 12 weeks before the contest to hold onto my muscle mass and keep my strength up and get that finished look that Arnold talked about. My competition weight from 1985-1990 for these contests was between 201-208 pounds. I actually lost weight when using the drugs because I was dieting and trying to get ripped. After the show was over, I would get off the drugs and stay off them until the next year when I competed again. In the off season, my natural bodyweight would go back up to 220-230 pounds.

                          Although I won some state and regional contests, I never did well at the national level shows. I entered the NPC Jr. Nationals twice, in 1986 and 1989, and I never made the top 10 in either show. It didn't help that I was competing as a heavyweight only weighing about 205 pounds. However, I thought I could emulate other pro bodybuilders like Rich Gaspari and Mike Quinn, both of whom were my height and they weighed less than 210 pounds for competitions. At the 1988 Olympia, where they did an official weigh-in for all the competitors, Rich weighed 208 pounds and Mike weighed 204 pounds. Since I was right there, I thought I had a shot.

                          However, by the late '80's and early '90's, the competitors were getting much bigger. It didn't seem possible to make it to the top at the national or pro level by only doing the drugs for 12 weeks prior to a contest. I did not want to start taking the drugs all year long or start using the drugs to build my physique. Although it was my life-long dream, I decided to stop competing and give up my goal of becoming a pro bodybuilder.

                          Around this time, the natural competitions were starting to get popular. Since I had built my physique without using the drugs, I thought I could make the transition very easily and start competing naturally. My first natural show, the 1991 NPC Natural Illinois, required their competitors to be drug free for 12 months. I competed at 195 pounds which was about 5-7 pounds lighter than when I was using the drugs. However, one of the reasons I competed lighter was because I didn't give myself enough time to diet and I had to add a lot more cardio and cut my calories in order to get ripped in time for the contest. As a result, I was cut but too flat for my first natural contest. I learned that I would have to diet much longer to compete naturally.

                          The next year, I dieted for 16 weeks and competed at 198 pounds when I won the Natural Mr. Universe and I looked much, much better. I was 204 pounds when I competed in the 1995 Natural Universe and 208 pounds when I won the Natural Mr. Universe in 1996. Today, at 44 years old, I am about 215 pounds in lean condition and I get down to about 205 pounds for photo shoots and guest posing.

                          My point is that I developed my body through lots of hard and heavy training and good nutrition. The steroids were only used in small amounts and for short periods and only to create the finished look to compete. If I had used the drugs to build my size, I wouldn't have had that size when I went off the drugs.

                          For example, there was a bodybuilder in the '80's who had great potential and was placing high in the national level events. He placed 3rd in the heavyweight class at the 1986 Jr. Nationals weighing about 215 pounds. Several years later, he decided to compete naturally. I saw him in a magazine around 1992 and he was weighing 185 pounds. Although he looked really good at this lighter weight, it was still 30 pounds less than when he used the drugs. My point is, if you use the drugs to build your size, you will lose the size when you stop taking the drugs. You don't get to keep the size or keep some of the size as so many young bodybuilders mistakenly believe.
                          Like Arnold said back in 1978, the drugs are only temporary and their benefits go away after you stop taking them.

                          I have always been honest about the drugs that I took in the past because I have nothing to hide and I don't think they created my physique. Of course, I could have just never said anything or lied about it but that's not me. I have seen bodybuilding forums where I was called a liar and a fraud but I have always been upfront and honest about this. I think many of the people who say this don't know that I built up my size naturally or that I only used the drugs for the last 12 weeks before a contest when I was dieting. Like I said before, if I used the drugs to build my physique, I would not have the physique I have today (20 years later).

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                          • Frederick, gotta apologize for the harsh tone in the beginning of my previous post. You weren't very disrespectful. I was attributing someone else's post to you (method101). My mistake.

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                            • Originally posted by Frederick View Post
                              You obviously are natural if you believe that! you do have knowledge on training and diet but not steroids!
                              Sorry, but you are incorrect there my friend. I do not only train natural competitors but also handle many that use all types of enhancement drugs. In addition, I have researched steroids heavily for the past 20 years in order to remain as effective as possible at what I do.

                              But hey...if you think a steroid cycle or two (unless they last for months and months at a time like some crazy dudes do) is going to keep an extra 20-30 lbs on a guy after being off of them for 10+ years, that is YOUR business.
                              CEO BBuilt International www.broserbuilt.com
                              NGA
                              PRO BODYBUILDER
                              PRRS/FDFS PIONEER

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                              • Originally posted by Ron Harris View Post
                                I think Layne sets an excellent example of what can be achieved with average genetics, no drugs, just a tenacious attitude, brains, and a powerful work ethic.
                                Not mutually exclusive! What mom & dad left off your lat spread is made up for in your head.

                                See what had happed waz, peoples is always forgeting that smarts is genetic two.

                                Layne, your work ethic alone (and not just in the gym) is a tremendous inspiration.

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